Does every student deserve a 100?

[mdp8879]

I was having a discussion with my co-teacher for my junior year math course. She worked with a four students the day before and wanted to change their previous test grades. For two of the students, she wanted to give them 1/2 the points they earned back, and for the other two she just wanted to blanketly up their grades to passing.

We had a discussion about consistency, and whether it is fair to do allow test corrections for some students and not for others, and also if some students are allowed test corrections, should their grading be consistent.

A comment that she made was something similar to this: There are some student who will not understand the material regardless of the number of times that we explain it. Should they be penalized for this? It isn't their fault.

What do people think of this? Is this differentiated instruction?

I would like to know honest, gut-feeling answers?

Please help.

[dsmms]

We have students that have these modifications written into their IEPs, but I always add a note that the grade has been modified.

[Brit]

oh, gut feeling says this isn't right. if they don't understand it however you explain it, yes, I would penalize them, because first of all, it's an accurate reflection of their skills, and second, if someone ever wants to go the route of obtaining remedial programming for them, they need grades that will suport them seeking the programming. In our district, there is no way that a kid in a regular program (without IEP) who is getting B's is going to get remedial help. Cheaping out on the grades does NOT help the child, and it gives a false sense of what the child can do to parents. so when someone down the road actually grades on the child's ability, you're setting that teacher and the family up for a "WTF" response -- which is not fair to them.

Having said that, junior year counts a bit more in life than the grades I teach (primary/junior). By taht, I mean that their test scores may affect what they can do in the future as far as courses, etc. In my area, we look for remediation; the child is still advanced through grades. still, I think that it should be about the learning and ability, not pity.

If you take corrections to tests, make sure it reflects real learning. Yes, I've seen people take corrections or re-dos for anyone under a certain perecentage. I think that's fair, especially if the grade affects courses the student can take next semester, or has other serious ramifications. but as I say, it's got to actually reflect taht the child LEARNED THE MATERIAL, not just got the answer to the question from a friend.

[Adrienne]

Grades are earned. While every student should start off with a 100 at the beginning of the year, it is up to them to maintain that grade. If you randomly hand out good or bad grades depending on how you personally feel about the student, then what's the point of testing, studying, taking notes, or doing anything at all in class?!

With that said, I also believe that grades should reflect individual students' effort as well as capabilities. If I have a student who is a bit slower than the other students but never shows up for extra study periods, is not paying attention in class, doesn't try at all, etc., then I'm not going to just give him an A for no reason. On the other hand, if there's a student who is struggling despite doing all the work, studying, staying after school to work with the teacher, etc., then I'll try to work with them. Give them extra time on the tests, maybe, or extra assignments for points, for example.

This attitude that students don't have to do anything and should be guaranteed good grades, though, just drives me insane. Grades are earned. A 100% A+ is not a natural right of students.

Teachers giving students A's or passing them when they obviously have not earned the grades and done the work is exactly why I have Seniors this year who can not write a complete paragraph, and Sophomores who have never read a full book before.

[mdp8879]

Thank you for your responses so far. I agree with what all of you are saying. It doesn't seem right to me to up a student's grade without a solid justification.

It seems to me that a grade should be a reflection of what the student understands. No, not every student will earn a 100%, and I think that is ok. I think that honesty is also a consideration, that by raising a student's grade without good reason, we are being dishonest to that student, allowing him/her to think that they are more capable than they really are. Is this fair to that student? Eventually it will catch up to them, right?

My co-teacher and I seem to have pretty different views on education. Her concern is whether or not all students can measure up to the same standards, and should students who cannot be penalized?

I think that one of the problems here is the idea that grades are punitive rather than a reflection of knowledge... hmmm....

[Clix]

Effort should only affect grade inasmuch as effort leads to achievement.

[teacher5]

:wowee:It is true some students will never be ale to earn high grades in certain subject areas, but will in others. Grades should reflect what they have earned and achieved. I truly believe there needs to be some indicator on the test or report card that says this grade reflects testing modifcations. With all this business of IEP accommodations and modifications and alternate test forms to reflect differentiated instruction; we need to qualifiy as well as quantify that an 80% on one student's paper may not be the same 80% on another. Many a time I have students become very frustrated during difficult math assessments, almost to the point of tears. In order to calm them down and get them to finish, I tell them I will prompt them in the right direction, but they cannot get full credit on that item if I do that. This has caused some students to become more prepared to take the test and still allows others to get something for some of their own work. I clearly indicate this on the example on the test when prompting and assistance is given. But I teach 6th grade math to a fifth grade class.

[War_Eagle]

I was having a discussion with my co-teacher for my junior year math course. She worked with a four students the day before and wanted to change their previous test grades. For two of the students, she wanted to give them 1/2 the points they earned back, and for the other two she just wanted to blanketly up their grades to passing.

We had a discussion about consistency, and whether it is fair to do allow test corrections for some students and not for others, and also if some students are allowed test corrections, should their grading be consistent.

A comment that she made was something similar to this: There are some student who will not understand the material regardless of the number of times that we explain it. Should they be penalized for this? It isn't their fault.

What do people think of this? Is this differentiated instruction?

I would like to know honest, gut-feeling answers?

Please help.

I agree that there are students who have an extraordinarily hard time understanding some subjects. I flunked the same algrbra class four times in a row.

But does that mean that it would have been right for my teachers to say, "Oh, but he's trying so hard. Let's pass him so he'll feel better"? Of course not.

Not only is it not honest to give them a higher grade that they have not earned, it's also not being fair to them. If they don't know the subject and you tell them, via artificially inflated grades, that they do know the subject, then what happens to them in their next class?

They should get the grade they earn, not a higher grade they didn't earn, just because you feel bad for them.

[wig]

I have a few students with low IQs that do not have an IEP. I will often allow then to correct a failed test and average the two grades together. If my goal is to have them learn the material, then correcting the test is another form of learning. The grades never get above a 70 and that is a high one

[MissTeach]

I make the modifications stated in a student's IEP, however, I do not allow one student the opportunity to make corrections without allowing all students the same opportunity. I also never give 'extra credit' opportunities to just one student. If I give an 'extra credit' opporunity, I give it to the entire class. When I post report card grades, if a student has an 89.4 and they have turned in every assignment, I make it an 89.5 so they receive an A. I do this for B, C, and D also. I tutor before and after school to help students who are struggling, but I don't just 'give' them points!

[David]

When giving out grade scores as the result of a test I take into account how that child generally performs in that subject. The result from a one off test may not be truely indicative of the child's true ability.

[AtoZ]

I know many teachers who do that sort of thing, and/or I've had many students who come from teachers like that and are shocked by my "lack of compassion"

Two things that I do to avoid giving out freebies:

--I offer retesting (different test, tutoring if the student wants it) to ALL students, even the ones who aren't happy with their 96% and want 100%. Why? In order to make a better grade, they'll have to know more.. As students' learning is my goal, if they make that better grade, that's good news for me.

--I have "office hours" during which students can get as much help as they need to master the material. At one school, I was also able to get a colleague to agree to this: to explain problematic materials to students who couldn't get it in my class... sometimes, my way of explaining things just doesn't work for some students..instead of having them listen to me all over again, I found it helpful to have another person do this. (Of course, this colleague sent her students to me as well)


I find that freebies make students lazy (no, not just students; all of us). If you don't have to do the work do achieve something, why would you?
And I certainly believe that it hurts students. Here's an example: I taught AP English...as it is usually the case with AP classes, all of these students were college-bound. After grading the second essay and giving it back to students, I was approached by a VERY upset student. She earned a C-. I asked her to explain to me (using the assignment handout and the assessment criteria handout) why she thought my grade was inappropriate. Instead of doing that, she repeated "I'm an A-student. I'm starting college next year."
As sad as it was, she didn't talk me into giving her a better grade. She improved somewhat by the end of the year.
I knew that she was absolutely capable of earning an A on a writing assignment, but her years of being "an A student" made her unwilling to put in the required amount of time into producing quality assignments. Of course, there are many other students like her.

What happens when they reach college? They're put in remedial classes, paying for credits that won't count toward a degree.

There's a great essay out there on this topic... I can't remember the title... something along the lines of "What this society needs is more Fs".... Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Author? Actual Title?

[biochem]

"I know many teachers who do that sort of thing, and/or I've had many students who come from teachers like that and are shocked by my "lack of compassion"

This is a major problem at my school. The current mantra of the administration is "Do whatever it takes to reduce the failure rate". This includes padding the grades of those students who don't do homework, fail tests, etc. If you're a teacher with high standards, you're dead meat at this school. I agree with everyone here. I don't give out freebies, I do offer retakes on tests occassionally, but find that the students don't really knock themselves out to do better. I offer extra credit to those who keep a well organized binder and to those who participate in after school study group. These incentives do not, however, have any effect on those students who refuse to put any effort into their grades and are used to passing grades from teachers who do give freebies.

It has actually come to a pont where I have to choose between keeping my job (passing everyone) or holding students resposible for their grades. I've watched a number of veteran teachers retire early and others lower their standards so a monkey could pass their class. Very sad.