Realistic Expectations for the future

[Karenrbw]

My kids had to fill out a survey today. It was about future plans, college, military, etc. It just continues to amaze me that some of these kids have no concept of what the real world is like out there.
Take little Johnny. Johnny is repeating the 9th grade. He currently has two Fs, a D+, two Cs, and two Bs. He is going to either Duke or Ohio State. I told him that if you go to an out of state school, your tuition pretty much doubles, or more. "Well, I'm going to move there to go to school, so that means I won't be out of state." I explained that it doesn't work that way. He told me he is originally from Ohio, so that means he is not out of state.
I hate to burst a bubble, but man, some of these kids need a reality check! If you have a C in biology, then you aren't going to be accepted into medical school.

[Brit]

I hope that a reality check will serve as motivation for some of these kids! I know at least one low achieving kid who is now trained as a police officer...he didn't achieve because he wasn't interested. Then, when he realised what was at stake, he pulled up his socks just enough to get into his police foundations courses -- in which he scored nothing lower than a 98%.

[Spectre]

LOL! I bet Johnny chose those two schools because of basketball or football. Tell him that Duke has been turning away honor students (as has Carolina) for a few years, so many there are that apply there. It takes more than good free throw shooting to get into Duke!

[muinteoir]

It's sad. So many kids just have NO IDEA of what 'real' is.

My child is a student at Texas A&M University (whoop!). I just returned from an Aggie Moms meeting where the vice president for student affairs spoke to us.

This year's freshman class has a little over 8000 students. That sounds like a lot, until you realize that 25,000 :wowee: students applied. The university accepted about 1500 transfer students this fall; over 6000 students applied.

And their football team stinks! :(

We need to stop telling kids they can do anything or be anything. It's just not true.
Kids can do a lot, but they are going to have to work for it.

I think it's time for a nation-wide reality check.

[Spectre]

It's sad. So many kids just have NO IDEA of what 'real' is.


We need to stop telling kids they can do anything or be anything. It's just not true.
Kids can do a lot, but they are going to have to work for it.

I think it's time for a nation-wide reality check.

Sadly, muinteoir, much of this is a result of that "self-esteem" revolution (it was revolting okay!) years ago. Yes, the one that forbade us to tell children (or anyone else) the truth, that insisted that everyone wins, that there is no such thing as failure....

Look where it's gotten them. Look where it has gotten all of us.:cry2:

Some were so obcessed with self-esteem that they forgot about reality.

[SiobhanMarie]

I think there is a difference between encouraging kids to achieve and be whatever they want to be and kids slacking off. I think as teachers or members of a society with children we need to do the best we can to educate and encourage kids to be able to become what they want.

Karenrbw - I think perhaps it's not your fault that this student doesn't understand what they may need to do; it seems like teenage ignorance to me so I don't particularly mean your effort, but muinteoir - I think your comment " We need to stop telling kids they can do anything or be anything. It's just not true" is very harsh. I think it's up to all involved to give 110% and work their best to ensure the kids may be able to learn and at least learn what is required. I agree with the last part of that statement "Kids can do a lot, but they are going to have to work for it".

I believe that it's a two part thing. The kids need to work hard; that is mightily true and there is no reason that they shouldn't - everyone else works really hard, but I also think that mentoring members of the community need to do their best to allow those kids to know what they need to work hard at and encourage their dreams.

On another side of the hand, I think that a reality check is definitely in need, because I realise people can work their hardest and kids won't listen... and I'm in Australia, so I think this may be a big thing! I'm not sure how this can be tackled... but I am sure that something needs to be done for the benefit of the future, our future.

[SiobhanMarie]

My post came up after yours, Spectre, however that is similar to the point I was trying to get across; I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Self-esteem and reality need to be combined and encouraged so that this chaos doesn't continue to happen!

[silvana]

Geeeeeee I am glad I am not a child in some of your classes...reality check...these kids live in a world that is changing faster than ever before....expectations on them are immense...I say this, do not tell a child what they CAN NOT DO tell a child what the success criteria for reaching that goal is......teach them how to suceed, offer them alternatives....do not crush their little souls with hard core reality .....life will do that soon enough......
Some of you made me very sad today!!!!!!!!! =(

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http://mrscunningham.edublogs.org/

[muinteoir]

Reality IS harsh. It is also necessary.

I certainly don't mean to advocate for discouraging kids, but it isn't fair to them to allow them to believe that they can be a doctor, basketball player or get into Texas A & M or any other school just because they want to.

Getting into A & M takes excellent grades, high SAT scores and a good resume that includes community service. You don't just sign up to go there, you compete with 25,000 other students.

Being a basketball player takes perseverance, dedication, and intense work ethic and a certain amount of innate talent. Although you can develop most of these qualities, including - to some extent - talent, not everyone will have what it takes to be a professional basketball player. After all, there are only 450 players in the NBA and they recruit the best from all over the globe.

Encouraging kids to do their best, try their hardest and helping them develop self-respect (as opposed to self-esteem - interesting article on this at http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19991101-000033.html) is very different from letting them really believe that they can do or be something just because they want to.

[merrynl]

I have students who don't do anything in class and then tell me they don't have to because they're going to get their GED instead. They talk about the GED like it's something you pick up off the shelf at Wal-mart.

No, we shouldn't discourage kids from aiming high, but some of these kids DO need a reality check. They don't understand what the real world is like.

[Brit]

I think what you tell a kid and how you treat them depends on their age. I'd be blunt with a highschooler, but with a six, year, old, well, they CAN do anything.

i've been watching a documentary series on TV called "Chinese School". I like the take of the teachers there on this topic. They tell their students "If you work hard, you will progress. If you work hard enough, your progress will lead to success!"

[mercygate]

Being a basketball player takes perseverance, dedication, and intense work ethic and a certain amount of innate talent. Although you can develop most of these qualities, including - to some extent - talent, not everyone will have what it takes to be a professional basketball player. After all, there are only 450 players in the NBA and they recruit the best from all over the globe.
Reality check: My boss was an avid basketball player in high school -- one of the top 100 in the country. Then he went to an elite basketball camp for these guys and discovered that there were 40 guys as good as he was and the rest were all better.

So he went to medical school, became a doctor, and is now Dean of a high-power medical school.

As for self esteem: you don't get self esteem because some adult lies to you about your accomplishments.

[mercygate]

I think what you tell a kid and how you treat them depends on their age. I'd be blunt with a highschooler, but with a six, year, old, well, they CAN do anything.

i've been watching a documentary series on TV called "Chinese School". I like the take of the teachers there on this topic. They tell their students "If you work hard, you will progress. If you work hard enough, your progress will lead to success!"

What a great way to put it! That way "success" is measured by the ability and effort of the person and not by somebody else's external imposition that "success" means graduating from MIT.

[MissTeach]

I teach careers at a middle school, and I have experienced what you are talking about. I always have about a third of my students wanting to be pro athletes and a third wanting to be doctors or lawyers and the other third don't care. We spend a lot of time researching the various careers and developing career plans. I always have my students pick a couple of alternative careers to research also. Some students discover careers they've never heard of and get excited about them. I always enjoy listening to them talk about how 'fun' that would be! I spend a lot of time having them 'explore' the United States and the world. I try to expose them to the 'world' outside of our little part of New Mexico. I want them to realize not all of the world is like our area. I love our area, but I want my students to experience other cultures and to become aware of the possibilities available to them. In case you can't tell, I am passionate about what I do. I love watching my students discover the world. Of course I have the ones who say my class is dumb. But hopefully, some day they will remember something they learned while they were in my 'dumb' class. I can always hope......

[Spectre]

Geeeeeee I am glad I am not a child in some of your classes...reality check...these kids live in a world that is changing faster than ever before....expectations on them are immense...Some of you made me very sad today!!!!!!!!! =(

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http://mrscunningham.edublogs.org/

Well, I regret that, Silvana. I wasn't and don't look to crush anyone, but American children have been pampered and spoiled for some years now. They've been misled and coddled into thinking the world revolves around them.

Sorry, but they need a reality check because life will be far more brutal than we will be.:confused2:

[silvana]

....hmmmm I have to ask why so many of you think that having aspirations is a bad thing....when I was a child I wanted to be an astronaunt...I really did.....not one of my teacher ever gave me the reality check you all advocate.......what they did do is show me another path I could take.....who says that teachers have the right to determine what truth children get to know........is our reality theirs.??....and do you really believe that you can objectively determine a persons future....?.

Not so very long ago a young man walked back into my school, a school where many teachers had wrote him off, he will never get to university blah blah.....but he did....he took the road less travelled but he got there.....if someone wants something bad enough there is no limit to what they can achieve. ....the capacity for human beings to change and develop cannot even be measured...let alone be determined by teachers....
...and in the end this is just my opinion... I am just a teacher =(

[Spectre]

I hear you, Silvana. Think maybe some of us just got our messages confused.

I'm all for encouraging students to dream and to hope. Really I am. Please don't think otherwise. Indeed, I tell my own students, many times each week, to question, to strive for great things, to NOT accept no for an answer and to not believe something just because someone (including me) tells them. My country would be much better off if we, as a people, would do that more often. We've gotten ourselves into some awful predicaments because we just went along, assumed our "leaders" knew best. Ha!

The problem I think some of us are trying to address is that too many children, at least here in the states, want it all, but are not willing to work or strive for it.:confused2:

Too many want things handed to them, think the world owes them, believe the entire realm of existence revolves around them.
:idontknow:

[teacher5]

When I heard a 10 year old say, I don't need to learn all that stuff. I am going to be a professional baseball player. I remarked and said that is really something terrific to aspire to. Then I tried to reason with him and point out that you will need to know math because you will want to know about your stats and what they mean. He told me a guy on the team takes care of that for the players. That's the guy that needs to be good in math. I said what about negotiating your salary. He said that's why there are attorneys and accountants provided by the team. I said what happens if you get injured and can't play. He said you have a contract and they still have to pay you. Then I said the contract has a date upon which it will expire. Then what will you do? Renegotiate a new one or go to a new team. Then I tried to make him realize that you may not make it to the major leagues. He said that's not what everybody has been telling him. He was told if you work hard at this and stay out of trouble with the law and just pass his school subjects, he will make it. Finally, I tried to point out there will be a time when you physically can't play any more, what will you do then? He told me he will have saved up a lot of money and also will probably do product endorsements, and that will surely be enough money to retire on. Look at what we have created.

[Ima Teacher]

I'm never on to discourage students in attempting to do what they want, but at some point people have to be honest with them about exactly what it's going to take to get to their goals.

I was an honor student, and I had a full scholarship through my dad's job. I applied to three colleges . . . one state university with open enrollment, one state university with strict requirements for admissions, and one private liberal arts university with very strict requirements for admissions. I was admitted into all of them. My plans were to go to the private university in the fall, but to attend the state open-enrollment university in the summer. I ended up really liking summer school more than I had anticipated, and decided to continue there in the fall. I was a chemistry/biology major. In high school I made A's in all of my science classes. In fact, I made A's in most classes with an occasional B here and there. I was placed in a high-level chemistry class. I ended up struggling with the class, so I decided to talk to the professor. He told me that he didn't understand how I expected to come from X County and know anything about chemistry. He added that I would NOT be able to pass his class, and I should have known better. Wow! Talk about a reality check. I did pass the class, but not without a lot of trouble. He was the main professor for my future classes, so I changed majors rather than deal with him. Now, had I been taking those classes NOW, I'd have stuck around and just showed him because I'm older and more stubborn. LOL Then I felt stupid and made a run for it. Of course, I don't regret my final choice of major. I do, however, wish someone somewhere along the way had pointed out that "advanced chemisty" at my school was NOT advanced enough to enter advanced chemistry in college. I made my "chemistry & biology major" decision pretty early . . . probably middle school.

When we have career days, I think we don't provide the appropriate choices for our students. They always bring in professional careers that require advanced college degrees. Now, it's a good thing to encourage kids to get school beyond high school, but the reality of things in our area is NOT that all kids will go to college. We're a rural, high-poverty area. We don't have any industry except one sewing factory and a few retail jobs. Well over half of our students are being supported by government assistance. We do have a lot of kids who will work hard and could do well with vocational training . . . yet nobody bothers to bring in the people with more realistic jobs for our students. We're all "military or university".

I brought DH in one year. He is a high school graduate. His long-term goals in high school were to become a famous musician. His parents didn't encourage him to do anything else in addition to that. Now, he's a good musician and has done some pretty good things with it . . . but fame and a steady income just didn't happen. He pointed out how he was in his 30's and had NO training to do anything other than basic retail work. He gave a major reality check to them. He often talks about how he regrets not taking his education more seriously.

[teacher5]

Ima Teacher- If you ever get a chance watch the movie October Sky. There is always that teacher that inspires and encourages students who appear to have the potential and can break out or break away. This is a true story about boys in a West Virginia coal mining town in the early 1960's. The boys either got football scholarships to college, or went to work in the coal mines. A young teacher comes to their school and realizes there is a group of boys who can enter the state science fair and win scholarships to college. Their project is building a model rocket. It is inspiring to see a teacher who stands up for her students, guides them, and has a positive impact on their future. Try to rent it or borrow it from the library.

[luvs2learn]

I have students who don't do anything in class and then tell me they don't have to because they're going to get their GED instead. They talk about the GED like it's something you pick up off the shelf at Wal-mart.

No, we shouldn't discourage kids from aiming high, but some of these kids DO need a reality check. They don't understand what the real world is like.

Do you know of any past students that have gotten their GED? Maybe have them come to your class to let them know what their GED did for them? What types of jobs they are working in?

How are old are your students? How about giving them a sample GED test to see how they would do? They may realize that even for the GED, they will need to do some serious studying.

I would never shoot down a students aspirations, but I would try to guide them into researching what is needed so they could work towards their goals.

[Boxcar]

I do know a few kids who have gotten thier GEDs and gone onto college. It is possible but difficult.

In my classroom, I praise hard work, trying your best, and learning from mistakes. I build self-esteem this way.

[Ima Teacher]

I do know a few kids who have gotten thier GEDs and gone onto college. It is possible but difficult.

We had a principal candidate who had dropped out of high school, gotten a GED, gone to community college, and then gone on to get a masters degree at a university.