Paraprofessional Working for Nuns Needs Advice, Please Help!

[kmurphey]

I am asking for input from others as to how I should handle the situation I am in. I am a female 23 year old paraprofessional in my third week working at a Catholic high school for girls. The school is very conservative & traditional, and is run by nuns - the type that still wear habits.

Into my first week, I was called into the principal's office and the principal told me that wearing slacks is considered immodest, and asked me to wear dresses or skirts.

I honored her request and started wearing skirts that very next day. However, most of my skirts are mildly above the knee when standing, and tend to ride up a couple inches when I sit. Since I don't have the money to go out and buy a whole new wardrobe, I have been wearing the skirts a have.

As of last week, I began hearing through the grapevine that the principal, as well as some other nuns were disapproving of my skirts. And yesterday I was called back into the principal's office and informed that she was considering giving me a dress code, much like the students.

I told her that I did not have the money to purchase a brand-new wardrobe, and she told me that other nuns were suggesting that I wear the same uniform that the students wear so that I look like I am part of the school, given that I am not a nun and wouldn't wear what they wear.

I was totally caught off guard, and pretty much at a loss for words. She gave me the contact details for our uniform supplier, and said that the school would pay for my uniforms.

Today, I went down to our supplier and picked up what they wanted me to get.

I totally realize it's their school and I am only 23, much younger than all of the other nuns working there. But I am very uncomfortable with being told to wear this uniform.

Any ideas on how I can turn this situation around? Otherwise, I am wearing it tomorrow. :(

[Clix]

Wear the uniform. Do an amazing job teaching so that you will have a wonderful reference when you apply to a school that won't restrict your wardrobe.

[Spectre]

I taught for ten years in parochial schools. Thankfully (for me) none of them (no pun intended) were as arch conservative as the one you are in.

It is :their" school and so you must do as they say, but I would have to comment that if they are making you wear what the students wear, that is very condescending and very disrespectful to you as a professional.
:wowee:

It puts you on the same level as the students.

By all means, do as they say, do a slam bang job and then get the "bleep" out of there!

There were few Nuns in the school where I taught, but on a personal level, I had little use for the ones we did have. Can you tell???:)

I am Roman Catholic and am all for supporting Catholic Education, but these Nuns, IMHO, are running people away from the faith.:confused2:

[mercygate]

This is a Catholic school? Or is it one of those super conservative "more-Catholic-than-the-Pope" schismatic groups? No matter.

OK. I understand Catholic (my DD went to one of the outstanding Sacred Heart Network schools [where the Sisters wore lay clothing]), and I understand conservative. I understand not wearing slacks.

But I do not understand asking you to wear the same uniform the kids wear, even though the Sisters have offered to pay for it. As a PP, you should not be lumped in with the kids.

That said, I would think they would have given you a heads-up on the dress code before you started working. These days, people your age have rarely been exposed to what conservative people consider 'modest'.

As others have said: do it. If this turns out to be a speed-bump in an otherwise excellent exprience, you will not have queered it for yourself. If you need to bolt, you will get a good recommendation.

[seastarmath]

I would go ahead and wear the uniform, but only until you can afford some longer skirts. Don't rule out thrift shops.
Look around for a better paying job. I started out teaching in Catholic Schools and I know what it is like. You have to be careful because sometimes it is viewed as a desertion or turning your back on "your mission in life" if you choose to move to a public school and your reference won't be that great anyway, no matter what you do. If you are looking to get into the public schools, it would be better to start with a job there to get noticed. If you DO have a mission, kids in public schools need your help just as badly, if not more.

[kmurphey]

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and suggestions.

Today was my first day on the job wearing THE uniform. I didn't mess around and change any of it; I wore it exactly the way they wanted me to and, as expected, felt very self-conscious.

I saw the principle first thing this morning when I arrived, and she was happy with my appearance. She even was smiling as she blatantly looked me over from all sides, and said that I wore the uniform well. (Gee, thanks!) :o I halfway expected her to measure my hem from the floor while kneeling like they do with our girls. (Sarcasm)

During homeroom, my principal actually got on the loudspeaker and made the announcement about me deciding to "proudly display my commitment to the school and to the girls" by wearing the uniform. And that any girl who did not give me the same respect that the faculty expected would serve detention. At the beginning of each of my classes many of the girls laughed, but quickly calmed down when I reminded them that they WOULD serve a detention if they could not calm down. I was not in any mood given how I am feeling.

Honestly, I feel like the slacks that I wore my first week were more modest than this outfit. After my first day of wearing this, I would suggest they include tights in the list of acceptable uniform accessories. :shootme:

[seastarmath]

I 'm with you. I think a well fitting pair of slacks is much more modest than a skirt.

Keep a journal of your experiences this year. Something tells me you will have quite a story even before Christmas. This episode alone is great! I see a new television series -a spin off of the movie version of course--in the making!

[mercygate]

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and suggestions.

Today was my first day on the job wearing THE uniform. I didn't mess around and change any of it; I wore it exactly the way they wanted me to and, as expected, felt very self-conscious.

I saw the principle first thing this morning when I arrived, and she was happy with my appearance. She even was smiling as she blatantly looked me over from all sides, and said that I wore the uniform well. (Gee, thanks!) :o I halfway expected her to measure my hem from the floor while kneeling like they do with our girls. (Sarcasm)

During homeroom, my principal actually got on the loudspeaker and made the announcement about me deciding to "proudly display my commitment to the school and to the girls" by wearing the uniform. And that any girl who did not give me the same respect that the faculty expected would serve detention. At the beginning of each of my classes many of the girls laughed, but quickly calmed down when I reminded them that they WOULD serve a detention if they could not calm down. I was not in any mood given how I am feeling.

Honestly, I feel like the slacks that I wore my first week were more modest than this outfit. After my first day of wearing this, I would suggest they include tights in the list of acceptable uniform accessories. :shootme:
Tights are not allowed? Really?

Actually, it seems like the Sisters are looking at the big picture and have set this up well for you vis a vis the students.

I'll bet you DO look good in the uniform!

[kmurphey]

A picture is worth 1000 words. Here's what the uniform they mandated looks like. This is exactly what our girls wear except for the shoes.

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq74/kmurphey1/cropped.jpg

[seastarmath]

You do look absolutely smashing in the uniform.
You don't look nunish AT ALL.
Still, I don't think you should be wearing what the students are wearing. You are a paraprofessional, not a model student. But if I remember correctly, if you try to tell a nun something she doesn't want to hear, you may end up standing in front of the room with your nose pressed inside a circle drawn on the board for a few hours. (not me, a classmate. But it sticks in my mind like a nightmare.)

[Spectre]

But if I remember correctly, if you try to tell a nun something she doesn't want to hear, you may end up standing in front of the room with your nose pressed inside a circle drawn on the board for a few hours. )

LOL! I just remember getting this vacant stare, like no one is home. It's a real experience. never seen anything like it anywhere, anytime, my entire life.

Truly, making you wear what students where IS demeaning, but, sadly, that's standard for the course when dealing with the Nuns I knew.

[Clix]

You're right; the slacks are DEFINITELY more modest. Fortunately it's an all-girls school, right? Cuz otherwise you might be worried about distracting half the class! ;D

Are patent leather shoes allowed, or is that still frowned on? ;)

[kmurphey]

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq74/kmurphey1/cropped2.jpg

The only hosiery permitted are knee-high socks like the ones in the photo. Our girls don't wear tights, pantyhose, or ankle socks. They have to wear knee highs. This is what they expect me to wear every day.


Tights are not allowed? Really?

[kmurphey]

Clix, I agree bigtime that pants are much more modest than these jumpers/skirt dresses they make the girls wear. They feel so open at the bottom. When you move around the fabric sways very freely, and when you sit, bend or have to squat the whole thing rides up because it is attached to the top part which goes over your shoulders. Wearing it this week, I felt very unnerved. I feel like a little kid wearing it.




You're right; the slacks are DEFINITELY more modest. Fortunately it's an all-girls school, right? Cuz otherwise you might be worried about distracting half the class! ;D
;)

[Spectre]

I continue to be appalled at how unprofessionally these people are treating you, forcing you to dress like one of the students.:confused: It has to affect how the students view you and, in turn, has to affect the status and/or authority you have with them.:confused2:

[Liane]

I continue to be appalled at how unprofessionally these people are treating you, forcing you to dress like one of the students.:confused: It has to affect how the students view you and, in turn, has to affect the status and/or authority you have with them.:confused2:

I totally agree. Now, I've never worked in any sort of religious school, but I'm wondering - if they offered to pay for your uniform, would they have also agreed to reimburse you for more professional (yet traditional) attire?

It just really bothers me that they've placed you at the same level as the kids. All the talk about kids having to listen to you "or else" is only necessary because they've put you in a position of LESS authority.

If it were a regular public school, I might suggest presenting to your principal the benefits of dressing a certain way (as a professional) - But I doubt this is a possibility for you.

If I were you, I would seriously consider quitting - and not waiting to get a good reference, as was suggested already by some. It's not worth it to go to work every day feeling disrespected and unappreciated. Save yourself!

[seastarmath]

I know I shouldn't say this. I really shouldn't say this. But I'm going to say this.

Uniforms for children are modest. But a fully grown woman wearing a Catholic school uniform is the stuff of fantasies for dirty old men.

Did the nuns ever think of THAT?

[kmurphey]

Ehww...Any man who finds this sexy has some serious issues. I feel pretty grossed out right now!


I know I shouldn't say this. I really shouldn't say this. But I'm going to say this.

Uniforms for children are modest. But a fully grown woman wearing a Catholic school uniform is the stuff of fantasies for dirty old men.

Did the nuns ever think of THAT?

[seastarmath]

That's why I knew I shouldn't say it. I didn't want to gross you out.

But that kind of sickness IS out there.

I am angry right now at the nuns for putting you in this situation. The order I grew up with --the Sisters of Charity--would NEVER had done that. They would actually tell you NOT to wear what the students wear as you need to be set apart. I can't believe they are doing this. It is just so totally wrong!

[Spectre]

I am angry right now at the nuns for putting you in this situation. The order I grew up with --the Sisters of Charity--would NEVER had done that. They would actually tell you NOT to wear what the students wear as you need to be set apart. I can't believe they are doing this. It is just so totally wrong!

This is so very typical, sadly enough.

as you can most likely tell, I don't have a very high opinion of Nuns. The ones I have had to deal with were so pretentious and hypocritical. I am a "cradle Catholic," but my experiences have pushed me very close to giving up my faith.

But that's me.

Kmurphey, I think you have handled your situation with great maturity and professionalism. It's those neandrethals you work for that need some serious intervention.

[mercygate]

A picture is worth 1000 words. Here's what the uniform they mandated looks like. This is exactly what our girls wear except for the shoes.

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq74/kmurphey1/cropped.jpg

WHAT are they THINKING? You DO look spiffy in it but to my mind, this outfit is too girlish even for high school juniors and seniors, much less for a 23-year-old paraprofessional.

If this very short skirt is an "improvement" over what you were wearing before, :wowee:, I don't wonder that they wanted to modify the costume, but this is silly.

Oh well, it's not worse than what people have to wear who work at fast food places!

[mercygate]

I know I shouldn't say this. I really shouldn't say this. But I'm going to say this.

Uniforms for children are modest. But a fully grown woman wearing a Catholic school uniform is the stuff of fantasies for dirty old men.

Did the nuns ever think of THAT?

Exactly what I thought. But let's hope that the nuns have no idea about that.

[BlackNannies]

I work in a public school were children wear uniforms ( not very formal) but blue and white just the same.
The teachers do not have a school uniform and most of the time look as if they are dressed more comfortable and relaxed than the children, and sometimes not modest at all.

Catch 22::eek:

[Helix]

So...any updates? Are you wearing it? Are you still working there?

[Brit]

hmmm...it looks like what I'd wear for Hallowe'en. but hey, they're buying your clothes for you, so that's not a bad thing. It must make getting ready in the morning easier, too. (yeah, I'm a silver-lining kinda person). You can take all the money you would've spent on clothes and get a good long great coat to keep your knees warm in winter. ;P

If you intend to stay on at the school, maybe you could negotiate a change in the colour of the tie or the vest to denote that you are staff?

It's too bad that the nuns would probably object to you wearing a habit. It would probably be more comfortable -- and certainly warmer if you have cold winters! Hmmm...thinking about Halloween again...if you're looking to quit, a habit would be a priceless costume...or just your regular clothes, and doll yourself up like a stripper in them...

[kmurphey]

So...any updates? Are you wearing it? Are you still working there?

Yes, I am still working here because other job opportunities are far and few between right now given the time of year and also the lack of jobs in my area. I am still wearing it, and have not been able to get them to work with me at all on this issue.

Because my principal intimidates me, I wrote her a letter outlining some of my concerns with wearing it, such as feeling like the girls don't respect my authority nearly as much, the modesty issues I deal with during the course of my day when having to bend, reach, or squat down for something low, and also the unwelcome attention I get from adult males when traveling to and from school.

The next day, she called me in for a meeting with the school president, herself, and two other nuns who teach religion. So immediately it was a four-on-one situation which intimidated me right off the start. To make a long story short, essentially they questioned my ability to control my class based on how I described in my letter that students are treating me as a peer because of the way I am dressed. They also questioned my faith in their leadership and administrative authority, as well as my desire to succeed.

But most of all they were offended by the portion of my letter which described the crude and unwelcome attention I receive from adult males when coming to and from school. Their view is that the uniform is a positive symbol of achievement, discipline, and high standards in reflecting upon their institution. And any talk of being sexually objectified was not tolerated in the meeting.

Finally, they all felt that I need additional guidance concerning my (PPD) professional and personal development at the school, as well as additional class supervision of all things. The two nuns who teach religion are going to mentor me in the Catholic faith at scheduled sessions after school, as well as take on a supervisory role with my classes by popping in when they can to observe and offer advice.

They also want me to attend worship services in the mornings before school. Services last about 20 minutes, and there is communion. I am Catholic, so that is not an issue. However, these sessions after school so far are really getting on my last nerve. I feel overwhelmed just trying to keep up with my teaching requirements.

[seastarmath]

I hope this is not going to "burn you out" for a teaching career. I am hoping you will find other employment soon.

I started my career in Catholic Schools. I stayed for only three years before I couldn't take it anymore. And the nuns I worked with and for were avant garde!

Really, k, write a short story about his. Look at your ordeal as research. It might make it more bearable.

If you do, the story will be published as fiction becuase those who have never walked in our shoes won't believe this could ever happen.

[mdp8879]

I'm shocked and amazed. I barely have words for how disgusted with that school that I am feeling right now. I am so sorry that your teaching job has ended up like this.

Your administrators and co-workers are demeaning and insulting. You deserve better. Good luck finding a better job, and congratulations on handling it so well for so long. I would have been working at the Gap by now.

[David]

I must say I find it unprofessional of the nuns to make one of their colleagues wear the school uniform. To my mind they have no right to make you do this. I feel that slacks are a very modest and suitable type of clothing for a female teacher to wear. You are in this situation and so you have to do what you think is right for you. However, I consider what the nuns have done bullying in the extreme. Good luck with your teaching.I might have to hand in my resignation to the Pope as a result of this.

[Spectre]

I replied to this post early on, and now I see there is more activity with it.

So...original poster, how are things going for you now?:)

I agree with those who say that these Nuns have seriously demeaned you. I've have felt that way all along. But then, my own experiences with Nuns, over my lifetime, have been less than sterling.

I recent saw the motion picture "Doubt."

Those of you who've seen it, you can imagine which side of the arguement I come down on.:angry:

[msstefano]

kmurphey, what a challenge!
i am impressed with how you have responded. and i think how stupid it was ...
"... During homeroom, my principal actually got on the loudspeaker and made the announcement about me deciding to "proudly display my commitment to the school and to the girls" by wearing the uniform. And that any girl who did not give me the same respect that the faculty expected would serve detention. At the beginning of each of my classes many of the girls laughed, but quickly calmed down when I reminded them that they WOULD serve a detention if they could not calm down. "

it seems this anouncement put you on the spot for students to laugh, just like they did. but you handled it WELL by calling them on the detention threat from the principal.

i like the former response..."Don't rule out thrift shops. "
i get some GREAT stuff at SAVERS. much of which is new over-stock from Nordstrom, Dillards, Macys. i would/could never pay full prices, but people think i do.

and it bothers me they would put you on the same level as the students. and the skirt they want you to wear seems short when sitting...however, you look great!

what a story to tell! good job!

[Clearly Canadian]

How long have you been wearing 'the uniform"? I'm wondering if wearing longer skirts (something originally deemed more acceptable) will still be tolerated? Originally your skirts were too short, and now you are wearing the uniform. Somewhere in your emails I almost get the impression that the only acceptable clothing will be the uniform. I hope that is not the case, but my spidey senses are tingling.

You're probably tired of reading it, but wow this is one nasty situation. You have handled yourself very well. Much better than I would have in your situation. Good luck with this issue. You certainly have my support.

[dsmms]

You are in a lose-lose situation. It isn't going to matter what you do to appease them, they will always find fault. Do yourself a HUGE favor and get out now while your sanity and self-respect are intact. No job is worth that! You can substitute and network for the remainder of the year. I am not sure about all districts, but April is the magic time to get your resume into the hands of someone who has the means to influence hiring. I have my current job because I reluctantly took a 6-week substitute position. The administration loved me and were instrumental in getting me this job. Sometimes you have to take a step back before you can move forward. Right now you aren't moving anywhere and even if you wait out the year, I don't believe you will get a good recommendation from that place.

Best of luck in your next job!

[wig]

Deleting post. Explained after my scolding. :)

[msstefano]

how DARE anyone 'doubt' this woman's experience!!!
as demeaning as the nuns!.....shame on you.

[wig]

I respect your right, and the right of others, to have the opinion you have.

But, this is my opinion, based on what was stated here and on another forum - probably more from there than from here since she went into far more detail there. As I said, I hope I am wrong. I am aware that parochial schools are very conservative, and some will not allow slacks or skirts above the knee so I am not saying that all of what she wrote was beyond the realm of possibility. I also know that nuns are given a pretty bad rep - some deservedly, some not. But I think there is a bias against them that makes every horror story about them plausable to many people.

Maybe I am naive, but I am having a hard time believing that the administration of the school forced an adult to dress in a too short jumper designed for elementary students with knee highs and high heels after being told that her own clothes were too short. I am also trying to figure out why she would not change clothes when she went out in public before and after school rather than subject herself to lewd comments.

I am not a cynic by nature. I am sorry my opinion offended you and rather than cause confrontation on this board, I am going to remove the original one.

[David]

I must admit Wig I'm a little sceptical too. However, I have been known to be wrong in the past.

[dsmms]

Even if we are being played, it has been an interesting read. I was skeptical in the beginning as well, that is why I held off posting to this thread. I wanted to see where it was going. I was unaware of the other forums wig spoke of. I guess in the end, I opted to give the benefit of the doubt. If this is truly someone in need of help, we can offer advice. If it isn't legit, then maybe someone else going through a similar situation can benefit here. I like the different ways the members of this forum thinks. It has helped me in more ways than you all know! :)

[Spectre]

I have to admit there is a possibility that wig is right. :idontknow:

Never gave thought to whether this person was legit or not. the reason I was so quick to buy off on it was due to my own, unfortunate, experiences while teaching in Catholic Schools. While the administration there was not so ultra conservative as the one described in the posts, I always found the Nuns I dealt with to be very controlling and afflicted with a case of tunnel vision. Odd (almost funny) that they were supposed to be an order devoted to serving the poor and they were, instead, so subservient and complicit with segments of our school populace who were very well to do:confused2:

Is it just me or does there seem to be some inconsistency there?:wowee:

[dsmms]

Spectre, I just had to smile when I read your post! I am always telling my students that your background knowledge and experiences affect your understanding of the text. This really makes the case for this. Your background with this issue allowed you to read something that those of us who never went to Catholic school can never fully understand. The closest knowledge I have of Catholic school is a friend who attended. She was wild!!! I think being controlled in school caused her to rebel in a BIG way - very self destructive. Somehow she came out of it though.

Just thought I would share. I enjoy your posts and your perspective on things.

[wig]

As I said, I could be wrong. I would be just fine with being wrong.

If I hadn't seen the picture, I probably would have given it the benefit of the doubt- especially if I had only read the story here. One of my students transferred in from a catholic school and very occasionally she wears the uniform that is in that picture - and never with high heels. When she sits down, because of the flare of the jumper, it does not ride up above her knees.

My experience with Catholic schools is not personal. Some of our students go to the high school after they leave our school (the girls wear skirts, blouses, and blazers or sweaters), friends that attended Catholic schools (the nuns were strict) and friends who teach in Catholic schools. The friends that teach in a Catholic school said that the uniform is an elementary school uniform. But I suppose it could be possible for a high school to require it.

IMO, she wrote an "interesting" short story.

[dsmms]

wig, thank you for allowing us to view this from another perspective. I think you suspicions are valid. There is no reason for anyone to slam you for your instincts. You were very professional in the way you expressed your doubt - nothing wrong with that! I do like the respectful way teachers on this forum discuss a variety of different views.

[kmurphey]

The white shoes were my own addition to it. I appreciate everyone's support, even though I haven't been on in a while.