A teacher's side of things.

[AWOL]

This topic is all about finding out the reasons teachers do things, their views on the educational system and how they react to different students problems. Also, don't lie. I've dealt with enough teachers to know when they're lieng, I don't need to see their faces.

I will be directing a few people I know to this topic. They will ask a teacher's view on things or what they would do in certain situations.

Firstly I'll start off.

What would you do if a student refused to wear a unfirom because he says he is protected by freedom of expression.

Also what are your views on uniforms. Do you think they promote unity? I once heard on a different forum someone saying that uniforms made people smarter. The general reaction from the website I come from was in general 'what's next, homework being proven to relax a student's mind?

[Chef Dave]

I am a high school chef instructor. Culinary Arts students must follow our dress code to be in my class. Our attire is not whimsical. Close toed, non-skid shoes are a workplace safety requirement. Long trousers and long sleeves help protect students from splattered hot oil and water. They also provide some protection for students who inadvertently bump into hot pans. Hats, caps, or hairnets along with food handler gloves and aprons are a health code requirement mandated by law.

Students who want to creatively express their opinions should enroll in a writing class.

I teach Culinary Arts.

Anyone who wants to enter our commercially licensed kitchen as a Culinary Arts student will be properly attired both for reasons of safety and liability as well as compliance with the county and state health code.

All rings, bracelets, and dangling earrings must also be removed. Students with long hair must put their hair up in a bun. Long fingernails are prohibited.

Earlier in the year I had one student protest my dress code as "unfair." She got to empty trash and do seat work for nearly two weeks until she changed her mind.

The expectations regarding student attire are inflexible - again as a matter of law and safety.

[Eidolon]

A dress code makes sense for a culinary arts school, but I think what AWOL really wants to know about is the reasoning for a dress code in middle and high schools.

Anyhow, my question is:
Do you sometimes wish you had more room to teach creatively? I know that the teachers at my old school were supposed to give out a certain amount of homework each week and couldn't use teaching methods that hadn't been approved by the school administration.

[Aziz]

Luckily, my school provides a lot of room to teach what we want. Teachers are allowed to come up with elective courses. There's an English teacher that offered Science Fiction Writing, a math teacher that offered Mathematics in Music, etc. I love that about our school.

How do you feel about the school schedule? Do you like having the school year from August/September to May/June? Do you like the time your school day starts and ends? Do you like Mondays through Fridays?

-Aziz

[irish223]

Shouldn't each new question have it's own thread? That would be easier to navigate.

So, I'll reply to the uniform questions:

What would you do if a student refused to wear a unfirom because he says he is protected by freedom of expression.
I would refer the problem to the office. The board of ed made the uniform decision, so they can deal with it.

Also what are your views on uniforms. Do you think they promote unity? I once heard on a different forum someone saying that uniforms made people smarter.
My district requires students to wear uniforms. I like them for a couple of reasons.

Uniforms help eliminate the differences between the 'haves' and the 'have-nots' when it comes to clothing. Since all students wear the same things, no one has better clothes than anyone else, at least not while in school.

Uniforms also help to eliminate inappropriate choices in clothing. We don't have to worry about students wearing gang colors to school (that's a problem here), logo tees, or anything too revealing.

I don't know about making people smarter. Maybe the argument could be made that students will focus more on their studies if they aren't so concerned with their appearance. I think that's a stretch.

[Aziz]

I don't mind the idea of uniforms. The only problem I have with them is that there are separate uniforms for girls and boys. There is a signification portion of our student body that identifies as genderqueer or prefers to dress in a more androgynous way. I'm sure such populations exist in other schools, but students are forced to dress a certain way because of the uniforms. I think that if there are uniforms, either all students should have the same uniform or all should be free to wear items that are typically assigned to either sex.

-Aziz

[SiobhanMarie]

Uniforms help eliminate the differences between the 'haves' and the 'have-nots' when it comes to clothing. Since all students wear the same things, no one has better clothes than anyone else, at least not while in school.



This is a fantastic point.

[silvana]

I work in an area in Rochdale where some students are socially deprived. I think the world we live in is difficult enough without children feeling the added pressure of wearing the latest fashion accessory and feeling like an outsider if their parents cannot afford, or refuse to buy these items.

For my school a uniform acts as a unifying agent, we are one family, this is our school community. True children who have, and have not, know their situation, but we feel by wearing a uniform we are saying .....no matter where you come from, or what you have done, in this school you are all the same.

[SiobhanMarie]

Aziz; your school sounds like its very allowing, it sounds fantastic.

I found that because I went to a rural school, we had basic options and then when I moved to a city for my final year, I was unable to change into any of the new classes because I had to continue sujects I had chosen in my previous years, which were the basics that our rural school could offer, so I really do believe some students miss out that way, but it's fantastic to see a school really opening up like that.

Silvana, carrying on from what irish said, thats such an important aspect of school and thinking about it now, thats more than likely the point of a school uniform. Equality and team work.

[jsfowler]

I would just like to say that I did not like AWOL's tone in his post....then when I read the one other post he has submitted and found out that he is 12, I really do not like the tone of his posts. So....just like the rude children in my classroom, I will send you to the hallway for a one on one conversation (however, since we cannot do that here...I will just place you on my ignore list).

[silvana]

Ok there is something deeply wrong with adding to the thread of a 12 year old..... I take back my comments and I am going home!!!!!

[Chef Dave]

Ok there is something deeply wrong with adding to the thread of a 12 year old..... I take back my comments and I am going home!!!!!

Having a kid post comments here is like having a child intrude upon the privacy of a faculty lounge. It simply isn't done ... or at least wouldn't have been when I was a child ... of course, that was before we had home computers and long before anything like the internet even existed ... :cool:

[TrickyOne]

Seriously, come on. Just because he is 12 does not make his post any less relevent. If anything it sounds like all of you are being disrespectfull to him.

And about what Chef Dave said about a child not being able to come here because it is like intrudeing on the faculty lounge. AT THIS FORUM I have read a topic and there were many teachers that said they read there students blogs, myspaces, facebook whatever.

You wonder why some childrens get angry, its because people think that there inferior just because there younger and dont take them seriously.

[Coach]

I didn't like the tone either. Coming in here telling us not to lie. Been around teachers enough to know when they're lying. Please. Respect is a 2 way street. I bend over backwards to be respectful to my HS students. Most of them treat me in the same manner. When they don't though, I give them a dose of their own medicine. I believe they are old enough. I believe that 12 years old is old enough as well. AWOL should run along and bother someone else.

[Chef Dave]

And about what Chef Dave said about a child not being able to come here because it is like intrudeing on the faculty lounge. AT THIS FORUM I have read a topic and there were many teachers that said they read there students blogs, myspaces, facebook whatever.

Posting at a forum is considerably different from reading a blog.



You wonder why some childrens get angry, its because people think that there inferior just because there younger and dont take them seriously.

Children who expect to be taken seriously should exercise better manners. Most people don't appreciate being called liars before a conversation has even started.

There are also plenty of websites for children to visit. I see no reason for children to visit and post at this site. This is not to say that I think that the viewpoints of children are absurd and/or that they should not be taken seriously. I am simply saying that I come to this website to interact with other adults , the vast majority of whom are teachers.

[Aziz]

I see no reason to bring age into it. I think whether someone is respectful or disrespectful is what it is, age aside. In other words, I don't attribute disrespectful behavior to age difference. Adults are perfectly capable of being rude, and I react no differently than when some "twelve-year-old punk" is rude.

While I do understand that some physiological differences make it harder for younger people to make some judgments (because their brains are still developing), I try to recognize that each twelve-year-old is not exactly as developed as the next. Some are more mature, and others less mature. I think often this variety gets overlooked. I try to respond to the level of maturity I see, not the fact that this person was born twelve years ago. One of the reasons I have this mentality is I often did things that weren't typical of my age group as a child. I went to college abroad when I was sixteen. It annoyed me when my professors treated me as a sixteen-year-old, even though I was attending the same classes as twenty-one and twenty-two-year-olds. I wanted to be treated equally in the classroom.

I make an effort to connect with everyone, regardless of age. I don't expect children to be especially polite while letting myself respond in a rude manner. I remember when adults would do that to me as a child, and I still remember how degrading it felt.

I understand that some spaces are for adults because children aren't emotionally ready to deal with certain situations (e.g. clubs because they often include a lot of drinking and sexual behavior.) However, I don't think there is anything about this forum that makes it inappropriate for younger individuals to contribute. Therefore, I welcome contributors of all ages, especially individuals who are coming out of curiosity. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see the "other side," so long as it's done with an open mind.

-Aziz

[Want2Teach]

I find it amusing that he is chastised for being 12. He gave us information in his introduction, and supposing he really is 12, he was up front with it.

Let's face it. We are all anonymous, and people know only what we choose to reveal here. I do think the uniform question, albeit debated to death, is relevant to both students and teachers.

As the old woman here, I'm going to vote against uniforms. First, the fact that people come from various stations of life is something everyone will have to come to terms with at some time or the other. So what if your neighbor's house is bigger, his car is newer and his clothes are more expensive...how does that affect your value?

To create imitation material equality reinforces the importance of material things to a child. It doesn't take an Einstein to realize that no one would go to the effort to hide Johnny's wealth if it weren't an issue. It also takes away something that could motivate a teenager to work. I want to dress like Mary, but mom and dad cannot provide "whoever has their name on girl's butts today" jeans,so I'll have to get a job and buy them myself. Once the student has the money in hand, designer jeans may not be as important as originally believed.

Forcing all children to dress alike takes away elements of choice, and it removes one stimulus that causes young people to evaluate what is really important.

That being said, there should be a dress code that forces students to dress in a way that isn't self deprecating, and the code should prepare the students for the expectations of employers once they graduate.

If there is a uniform, and a student refuses to wear it, the student should be sent home until his parents appear and indicate that they will make sure he abides by the rules in the future.

[oldandrew]

The main reasons my school has uniforms are, as far as I can tell, to deter truancy and to make it obvious if anybody who isn't a student at the school has managed to get in.

The problems we have with truancy on a "non-uniform day" suggest that this does make a real difference.

[SiobhanMarie]

I think this is getting off track.

[silvana]

Ok I was kidding....and if I seriously had any concerns about 12 year olds posting or reading anything on here do you really imagine I would come on ....derrrrrr talk about taking things out of perspective

Lets just all calm it down and talk about something more relevant....do people like those in dirty sexy money really exist...answers on a postcard and sent to addict....thankyou =)

[Boxcar]

I have a question for those who teach children with special needs: Do your students have to wear uniforms as well? I know a lot of children with special needs have intolerances for certain types of clothing. Some of the children are SID. Others don't, but still have certain traits of SID. How do your schools handle these situations.

In answer to the actual question: I don't have to worry about uniforms. Preschoolers don't have those kinds of dress codes. Well, most centers don't do that anyway. I think that as long as the clothing my students are wearing is age appropriate, facilates the formation of self-help skills, is right for the weather, and is safe, there isn't a problem. (I know. That was a terribly constructed sentance, but I think you get my point.)

As for the older grades, I don't think that uniforms bring unity. I have yet to see a fight over who was wearing what. If a student is going to be bullied or harrassed, it isn't going to be stopped just by making everyone wear the same thing. Just my opinion, of course.

As for the OP's first post: I don't understand something. If you already know our truths and can tell when we lie, why ask in the first place? You supposedly know what we are going to say anyway. Assuming you know everything about any group of people is dangerous. It closes your mind and doesn't allow you to grow. Be careful about classifying people into static categories. Everyone on this board is unique. Just as everyone in the world is unique.

[pooker]

I have a question because I still hear it now even in college! I think this is a question most people would be curious to hear actually from a teachers mouth.

Do teachers have favorites?

I still hear it now, "the only reason (insertname) passed is because he was buddy buddy with the teacher"

I mean even in school I was the quiet one and I saw how some teachers were more social with other students than some, but thats to be expected in a huge class. I often wondered if that affected a teacher to the point of altering a students grade or helping give them "bonuses".

[Boxcar]

I have favorites. I don't give speical bonuses or let it affect my teaching. By acknowledging that I am human and thus imperfect, I guard against biased behavior. I use reflection and ancedotal records to help myself take a step back and look at what I am doing. I work very hard to give every children his/her maximum oppertunity. I am careful about being fair.

[irish223]

I like some of my students better than others, but I always try to focus on my students' positive qualities. I say 'try' because I know I'm not always successful. Usually though, the ones I like most are not the most popular.

I don't believe that it affects my grading, or how I treat my students. I'm kind of 'rule-oriented' so I have my rubrics and rules in class, and I'm a stickler for those. Anyway, I like to think that I treat all my students equitably and fairly, and I really hope that's true!

[smithmt]

What would you do if a student refused to wear a unfirom because he says he is protected by freedom of expression.

Also what are your views on uniforms. Do you think they promote unity? I once heard on a different forum someone saying that uniforms made people smarter. The general reaction from the website I come from was in general 'what's next, homework being proven to relax a student's mind?

The Supreme Court has stated that Students do not "Shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate" Morse v. Frederick But that freedom does not give students to disrupt the educational setting.

Due to this, schools are allowed to mandate uniforms especially due to Gang activity and "Representing" membership in gangs. This activity does disrupt the educational setting. Schools that don't have issues with Gangs still can have uniform requirements if the school board votes on it. If an individual doesn't want to follow the dress code, they (theoretically) go before the school board and make their case as to their exception (such as facial hair and Yamakas for a Jewish man Or Burka for an Islamic woman) but like my examples, there has to be a good reason for the exception.

[SiobhanMarie]

Wow, I guess that it's a bigger situation in the US with gangs and clothing...

[AWOL]

Sorry about first post. But I really didn't want people to lie. And I can tell when people are lying, what they lie about. But unless it's a yes or no question I can't tell what the truth is. I also meant the question as in, it wasn't gang colors and it wasn't innapropriate. The school still had some control, and there might be a uniform for people who brought innapropriate clothing or something.

Didn't realise being twelve mattered so much to you. :(

[AWOL]

Also, new question. Two students come up to another teacher and instead of dealing with it properly, gives them both the same punishment because 'it takes two to tango', which personally I believe is bull.

The student who got the fair end of the bargain(the person who did something wrong) and tells you a story that is probable but not possible(you saw the student only moments before it occured or something. Use your imagination).

The student who didn't do anything wrong takes the shotgun shell standing and when you ask him what happened, he refuses to tell. What do you do. Use as much detail as possible that has something to do with it.

[psychopath]

What do you guys think about school being compulsory?

I think that anyone should have the right not to go to school, and if school wasn't compulsory then it would naturally improve, since if it didn't nobody would go. Other alternative methods of education would also improve and new alternatives might rise.

[irish223]

Going to school is not compulsory. Parents have the option to home-school.

Until the child is 18 (in most states) the parents have sole decision-making responsibility. Do you really believe that parents would choose to keep their children home from school if it wasn't compulsory?


(Do I smell teen spirit?)

[psychopath]

Going to school is not compulsory. Parents have the option to home-school.

Until the child is 18 (in most states) the parents have sole decision-making responsibility. Do you really believe that parents would choose to keep their children home from school if it wasn't compulsory?


(Do I smell teen spirit?)

What if the parents refuse to home school the child, or to do anything at all? Shouldn't the child have a right to not go to school?

[Boxcar]

Well, you can drop out at sixteen at my local high school.

I know one boy who was in my grade who used this option in a creative way. The guy was an arrogant jerk, but i do have to admit it was clever. He dropped out, got his GED, and went on to college early.

So, do I think school should be required. Yes, I do. Until a child is in high school and/or legally a teenager, school should be mandatory. You can't have a nine year old deciding to drop out. That isn't going to work out well.

Once a child is 13 and/or in high school, that person should be allowed to make a case for leaving school. Not a I-Want-To-Play-Grand-Theft-Auto-All-Day case, but a real case. Something like planning to work or study. If the child and legal guardian are in agreement, that is all well and good. The child will be released from school. If not, further proceedures will be followed. Generally, the guardians wishes will be defered to unless there is good reason for the child not to remain in the classroom.

You might ask why I picked 13 as the cut-off age. Well, you have to pick a minimum. Plus, I've taken Adolecent Psycology and whatnot. I know that certain changes occur in brain structures (i.e. frontal lobes) that impact reasoning and thought. I also picked this age because it is a rite-of-passage year. A child legally becomes a teenage at this point. Also, most 13 year olds are entering a new phase of education and are at an ideal point for potential change.

I hope what I've said makes sense. Drawing up policies isn't always wise early in the morning...

[Boxcar]

There was a question that got skipped, so I'll answer that too.

If two students come to me with a problem, I will try to get to the root of the issue. In a previous post, I talked about how I teach problem-solving to my preschoolers. I would expect these skills in older children. Of course, I would know whether I needed to re-teach them being the students' teacher.

In any case, I'd ask both students what happened. Each student would say their side without being interrupted. Next, I'd point out any discrpencies (i.e. I just saw Student X talking over by the lockers two seconds ago.) The student would be able to refute these comments. Finally, I'd ask what the students think the solution should be.

Yes, that is an ideal situation and not reality. However, I thought I'd start off with it anyway.

In reality, the students might continue to argue innocence in the face of evidence proving otherwise. Then, I'd need to make a judgement call. I'd tell the student that I need proof to counter-balance what I witnessed. If the student claimed to be in the lunchroom at 12:18 but I saw her leaving the third floor bathroom at 12:20 that claim isn't going to stand up to the light of day. I know that at a flat-out run it takes 5 minutes to climb the stairs and cross the entire lenght of the hall to reach the bathroom. (This is totally hypothetical, so work with me here.)

I guess what I'm saying is this: A teacher should be his/her best to get all the facts. However, sometimes it can be really hard and you've got to recognize that. We aren't lawyers or judges. We do what we can.

I'll throw out a real example here to illustrate this better. My students are 3, 4, and 5 so keep that in mind. Here is my example:

Two students are fighting over a toy. I like my students to share, but I don't force it continually. I like to play without sharing sometimes and so do the kids.

I ask "What are we doing here?" Sometimes kids wrestle for fun, and I don't want to solve a problem that isn't there.

Children respond "He took my toy! I was playing with that! Make him give it back!" They are both still yanking on the toy.

I reach out and say 'Here. Let me hold this while we use our words." I take the toy and hold it. I'm sitting on the floor at the children's level. Because I didn't see what happened, I have to take this route.

I say "Now, James and Kevin. I see that you both want to play with this car."

Children agree.

I say "Who was using it first?"

Both chidlren claim they were.

I say "Okay. James, Kevin said he was using it. Kevin, James says he was using it. We have a problem, don't we?"

Children agree.

I say "What do you think would be fair Kevin?" I also ask this of James.

The children's suggestion will vary, but they usually come up with some way to share. it can take awhile, but they do know how to take turns. Sometimes the solution is that James gets the toy car, but Jason gets to be in line first for recess. Or the solution is that James and Kevin each get five minutes with the car. As long as the children agree, it is all good. It just has to come from them.

Yes, it does take patience, skill, and time. However, I try really hard to be fair and just. I want to model good skills.

[Boxcar]

Oh, forgot the second part.

If a student wants to be the martyr, so be it. If she/he is verbal, that is his/her choice. I mention being verbal because I teach really little kids. Also, some children with special needs cannot vocalize. However, that is probably off-track here.

Anyways...

I can't force a student to talk. If this student doesn't want to present his/her case, I'm not going to fret about it. If you feel secure in the call not to talk, you can also be secure with the forth-coming consequences. That is just the way life works. I can't read minds. I'm doing my best here and all my patience and openess and justice can't help a wall.

If there is an underlying reason for not taling other than a personal decision, that is a different story. A scared, non-verbal, or special needs child would recieve a different approach from me than a logical, intelligent, and mature student.

[smithmt]

Sorry about first post. But I really didn't want people to lie. And I can tell when people are lying, what they lie about. But unless it's a yes or no question I can't tell what the truth is. I also meant the question as in, it wasn't gang colors and it wasn't innapropriate. The school still had some control, and there might be a uniform for people who brought innapropriate clothing or something.

Didn't realise being twelve mattered so much to you. :(


First off, please use quotes if your are going to insult an individual on this board, that way the one who was insulted can know it was them and people who are vain or have a guilty conscience realize it's not them.

Most 12 year olds will avoid this board (we ARE teachers) just so you know.

As to the gang color issue, or lack there of. If the school board decided to enforce uniforms, then there is a reason. I suggest that instead of asking the question to a bunch of faceless teachers from around the world, that you go ask your school board. Because they are the only entity that can answer your questions satisfactorily. If you then have questions about how to change the status quo, we could probably help more.

Also, what did you mean about the 'lying' thing? I became confused about whether you could tell if some one was lying.
could you clarify this?


Going to school is not compulsory. Parents have the option to home-school.

Until the child is 18 (in most states) the parents have sole decision-making responsibility. Do you really believe that parents would choose to keep their children home from school if it wasn't compulsory?...


Actually, children do not have to go to school at all (this may just be Texas) but a parent can go before a court and explain why their child doesn't need an education... I wish I could cite precedent.

and no, I believe that parents enjoy the 'free' daycare.

[Boxcar]

I didn't know about the law in Texas. That is interesting. i'll have to investigate better what IN does...

[irish223]

Actually, children do not have to go to school at all (this may just be Texas) but a parent can go before a court and explain why their child doesn't need an education... I wish I could cite precedent.
Wow, do you know what any of the explanations have been? I can't even imagine a good argument for keeping a child from an education!

and no, I believe that parents enjoy the 'free' daycare.
Amen... at least in some cases!

[AWOL]

You guys are all overreacting. I didn't use quotes because it was alot of people. I'm not using quotes now because the person knows who I'm talking to. I wanted to know your opinion. by the ways so that's why I'm not going in front of a school board or even a court. Also, I'm suprised to see so many close-minded teachers [/sarcasm]. Don't pass me over because of my age. It only proves my (our) point that most teachers are ageist.

[irish223]

You guys are all overreacting. I didn't use quotes because it was alot of people. I'm not using quotes now because the person knows who I'm talking to. I wanted to know your opinion. by the ways so that's why I'm not going in front of a school board or even a court. Also, I'm suprised to see so many close-minded teachers [/sarcasm]. Don't pass me over because of my age. It only proves my (our) point that most teachers are ageist.

You seem guilty of discrimination against teachers!:eek:

[Boxcar]

I have to agree. Just by reading the past threads, you will see that this group has a lot of different opinions. Therefore, I can't understand how we can be segregated into one category of closemindedness. (Don't think that is a word, but you get the idea.)

I personally think the thread was a good idea. I don't care what your age is. If we can get away from that conversation, I think this would be an interesting and worthwhile thread.

[smithmt]

OK, re-reading the posts... I would love to answer questions by students if they have them... I agree with Chef Dave that this is the wrong environment to entertain questions. AWOL, I suggest you advertise a place where you and your fellow students can post questions about our views and those of us that want to answer them will do that. I'm sure that in that context, many of us would be happy to answer any questions you have regarding our views on education, or policies, etc. How does that sound (if you check this board anymore)

Maybe we could have a whole site dedicated to this idea... other thoughts?

[Aziz]

How about a teacher-student dialog section?

-Aziz

[Boxcar]

I think that would be fun. My preschoolers could come on and ask why I make them share. lol. That would crack me up.

Seriously though. I think that is a good idea. I wouldn't mind talking with students and answering questions.

[catlover59]

Sorry about first post. But I really didn't want people to lie. And I can tell when people are lying, what they lie about. But unless it's a yes or no question I can't tell what the truth is. I also meant the question as in, it wasn't gang colors and it wasn't innapropriate. The school still had some control, and there might be a uniform for people who brought innapropriate clothing or something.

Didn't realise being twelve mattered so much to you. :(

Maybe it wasn't the "being 12" that mattered, but the attempt at misrepresentation in your first post (lying?). It seemed that you were trying to make teachers in a forum think you were a teacher. Your tone, as it were, made it a little unbelievable.

I am impressed that you apologized and told the truth. If you have questions about teaching and teachers, I will be happy to answer your questions.

[catlover59]

I would like to reiterate the suggestion that you use quotes to tell people who you are talking to or reacting about. You said that the people "know it", but really, you can't know that for sure. Also, other innocent readers may think that you are talking to them, when you are not.

This is just a gentle suggestion, so that people on this board will take your posts seriously. Cheers!

[BobManPerson]

I find it funny that in the first post you all claim that everyone is equal, regardless of all differences...
...Then you act like AWOL shouldn't be taken seriously and is just an immature, childish 9-year-old.

[AWOL]

I think that a forum/thread/whatever just for student/teacher discussions is a great idea. Also, I always talk like this on forums. I'm a much better writer than I am a talker anway. Anyone know who the webhost/forums admin is. I would like to suggest it, although if you guys did I wouldn't care. It's a good idea. Also Bob thanks, you've always been a great help to me. BUT YOU ONLY HAS THREE POSTS! You. Three. Posts. *has heart attack*. And so the immaturity continues...

[Boxcar]

Addict is the person in charge.

[Puchiko]

I work in an area in Rochdale where some students are socially deprived. I think the world we live in is difficult enough without children feeling the added pressure of wearing the latest fashion accessory and feeling like an outsider if their parents cannot afford, or refuse to buy these items.
Well, uniforms aren't generally that cheap either.
And my expirience has been that bullying and teasing is not caused by clothing itself. Bullies will find a reason, it might not be a t-shirt, but they'll pick on you for a different reason: mobile phone, social status, looks, hair cut.


For my school a uniform acts as a unifying agent, we are one family, this is our school community. True children who have, and have not, know their situation, but we feel by wearing a uniform we are saying .....no matter where you come from, or what you have done, in this school you are all the same.
In my opinion, trying to make everybody "all the same" is not a good idea. Everybody is a different and unique human being, and I believe you should respect that.


Having a kid post comments here is like having a child intrude upon the privacy of a faculty lounge. It simply isn't done ...
It's something completely different. This is a public board. Unlike the faculty lounge, it is not associated with specific status. And unlike the faculty lounge, it can be read by any Internet user. I have read the terms of use and the rules, neither exclude non-teachers.


There are also plenty of websites for children to visit. I see no reason for children to visit and post at this site.
I am interested in the youth rights movement. And you can't change the world if you leave most of the world out of it, which is why I interact with people of all ages. Your opinion is valuable to me, because it gives me a viewpoint I might not hear elsewhere.
Plus, apartheid has never brought anything positive to society. It's good if different people interact with each other.

[Darthmat]

Hello, I am Darthmat. I am fourteen, and in September I will be entering AIT, Academy for Information Technology. It is a Magnet School. If you don't know what those are, I suggest looking 'em up, it's a very good alternative to regular public school.

I didn't have time to read through the whole thread, in fact not even the whole first page, with finals and all, but this psot caught my eye, and I would like to respond to it.



Uniforms help eliminate the differences between the 'haves' and the 'have-nots' when it comes to clothing. Since all students wear the same things, no one has better clothes than anyone else, at least not while in school. I tend to find this view a bit ignorant. Yes, kids certainly do this with clothing, but it's not about clothing, if you know what I mean. There will always be an 'it' group. Whether it's based on hair, skin color, body shape, singing voice, personality, sports skills etc. Clothing is just one of the easier ways to accomplish this.


Sorry I didn't have time to respond to the rest of the post!

[jsfowler]

Please don't bother...this is "Teacher's Corner", not "Student's Corner".

Darthmat, everyone here knows what a Magnet School is...many of us went to one ourselves.

If this keeps up I will quit this forum...I have made friends here and I will continue to communicate with you by other means than this forum which has become over run with parents and teenagers!

[Darthmat]

So sorry.. I was referred here, and if you would rather not have me here, I'm cool with that.

[jsfowler]

Who referred you...another student?

[Darthmat]

Yes, another student.

[Darthmat]

Yes, another student.

[Student4life]

Darthmat- I am just curious...Do you know the other students name on this site? Also, I forgive you...you seem sorry enough and are offering to forgive the problem.

[Darthmat]

All I know of are the students in this thread. I do not know there real names, just their internet identities.

[irish223]

Hello, I am Darthmat. I am fourteen, and in September I will be entering AIT, Academy for Information Technology. It is a Magnet School. If you don't know what those are, I suggest looking 'em up, it's a very good alternative to regular public school.

I didn't have time to read through the whole thread, in fact not even the whole first page, with finals and all, but this psot caught my eye, and I would like to respond to it.
I tend to find this view a bit ignorant. Yes, kids certainly do this with clothing, but it's not about clothing, if you know what I mean. There will always be an 'it' group. Whether it's based on hair, skin color, body shape, singing voice, personality, sports skills etc. Clothing is just one of the easier ways to accomplish this.


Sorry I didn't have time to respond to the rest of the post!
Oh geez... :rolleyes:

[irish223]

All I know of are the students in this thread. I do not know there real names, just their internet identities.
Do you know them from this site:

http://www.school-survival.net/forums/

Do you think a large group of teachers would be welcome on that site?

[TrickyOne]

cbxdfbdbvsdvdvs eg weg weg

[TrickyOne]

lolpiecopter!?

[AWOL]

TrickOne stop spamming. We told you guys not to. I am here to talk, not abuse the hell out of this forum. Also, I am the one who redirected any students(aside from SiobhanMarie) to come here. Yes I am from school survival. I am known there as AWOL too. And we have had a few teachers in our time. Sure we don't openly trust them as much as the others. I mean this as in it will be harder to gain our trust then others. If you do join there though, watch out for the butt pirates(i herd joo liek teh butsecks). Yeah we are weird.

[thunderstruck]

Do you know them from this site:

http://www.school-survival.net/forums/

Do you think a large group of teachers would be welcome on that site?

Actually, I am also a member of said forums. I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to google it. And yes, you would be welcome.

As for the whole "Butt Pirates" thing AWOL mentioned, it's just a stupid trend. Intelligent discussion is certainly welcome.

Feel free to join, if you want.

[Boxcar]

Hmmm... Looked at the site for a second or two. It seems like an okay place...

The category for original artwork is a cool thing to have.

[Oneiromancy]

This is to all...

Don't judge the site by the dumb ones that are there.

[Boxcar]

No...

You might be able to help us with that. If you think a thread there is relevant to a thread here, you could maybe link it or mention it...

I don't mind stupid or dumb comments, but I'm not cool with rudeness...

[Oneiromancy]

Sorry my comment was vague. I was talking about the school survival website.

[Bananas]

cbxdfbdbvsdvdvs eg weg weg

When I send a product like this, my dog puts his paws on the keyboard in search of being petted or food. He somehow gets his paw on the right key to post the message.

[Boxcar]

Awww... He wants to contribute too. Perhaps your dog is just talking in code...

[Bananas]

He's always been technologically gifted. You should have seen the time he jumped on the couch and sat on the TV remote. That shows how he is gifted. He had the only male reproductive part still left with him sticking out and glowing red. His strategic alignment was flawless. Had I had a camera poised, he would have been famous and been forwarded to an untold amount of email inboxes!

Now if he would just let me trim his nails, he might be more accurate in his typing. Now if he would just get better with his spelling. He has mastered g-o, c-a-r, b-a-t-h, t-r-e-a-t.

[Boxcar]

lol. He sounds like such a charactor! It must be fun to have him around.

[Bananas]

He is a lot of fun!

To those who have concerns of youth on this forum--have no fear. Even though he is approaching 16 year of age, the vet said that was equal to 95-100 years as we humans measure. Just be sure you watch your food around your computer! He is very quick for his old age and smart enough to know when your attention is directed elsewhere for his best chances of food theft.

[Clix]

Do you know them from this site:

http://www.school-survival.net/forums/

Do you think a large group of teachers would be welcome on that site?


*snicker* They would FLIP if we invaded and started correcting their grammar. Hee hee hee...

oo, and their silly l33t or txt spelling *eyeroll*

Although I would like to point out that the title of the forum is "School Survival," which teachers struggle with as much as anyone! ;)

[Aziz]

The School Survival website looks like a nice haven. I'm tempted to join so I can help them with translation. However, I would rather preserve the safe space students have created for themselves. I would suggest that the few members that have come over here from School Survival post any questions that they want to have a teacher's perspective on. That way School Survivors can maintain the sense of safety created by having largely students on that website and at the same time bring teachers into the discussion when wanted or needed.

-Aziz

[Boxcar]

A bridge type thing...

[Oneiromancy]

Aziz:

I actually think it would be nice if teachers or really anyone else other than teenage students would join.

Clix:

You're cool...

Not really.

[Darthmat]

The School Survival website looks like a nice haven. I'm tempted to join so I can help them with translation. However, I would rather preserve the safe space students have created for themselves. I would suggest that the few members that have come over here from School Survival post any questions that they want to have a teacher's perspective on. That way School Survivors can maintain the sense of safety created by having largely students on that website and at the same time bring teachers into the discussion when wanted or needed. No, certainly feel free to join! Your participation would be just as valued as anyone else's, if not more. As you can imagine, usually only the side of the student is represented, so it'd be great having teachers! And help with translation would be amazing!


*snicker* They would FLIP if we invaded and started correcting their grammar. Hee hee hee...
I think I am pretty good with grammar. I don't notice many mistakes in my postings.

oo, and their silly l33t or txt spelling *eyeroll* ....
Wow, could you be more insulting? 1337, which many do not use on SS, is just a fun thing to do. Ppl who typ like dis r usualy frwnd upn.
(Translation: People who type like this are usually frowned upon.)


Although I would like to point out that the title of the forum is "School Survival," which teachers struggle with as much as anyone I'm sure teachers have it rough. But so do students.
In conclusion, I must say you are among the most condescending, generalizing, and insulting people I have ever met over the internet. Maybe if you changed your attitude towards teens, you could see we aren't so bad, and are people. Just like you. We are people!

[Boxcar]

Your grammer is fine. Of course, I'm not the best judge. As I've mentioned, I'm a horrible speller...

You are people. (Isn't that a song?) We are too. If we all follow the Golden Rule, things would be better.

[Oneiromancy]

This is true Boxcar. The Golden Rule works.

I know most of the members that recently migrated here are trying their best to be nonconfrontational, but it's challenging when you read some of these messages from teachers assuming higher social and intellectual ground. When I read some of these comments I'm just picturing some teacher somewhere in the world behind their computer with a wide grin on their face thinking, "Hey, let me just post some sarcastic and insulting messages to these lower children over the internet so I can further boost my ego and grow the length of my e-peen." I'm usually apathetic about situations like this, but these are teachers we're talking about here!

I hope anyone with these thoughts keeps it to themselves at the very least and doesn't let it manifest in the classroom otherwise I would hate to be the student of that teacher.

The original poster was entirely benign. I saw nothing in his original posts that deserved the kind of condescending remarks that ensued. But of course, some teachers just had to take advantage of the opportunity to belittle a child over the internet.

[Darthmat]

You are people. (Isn't that a song?) We are too. If we all follow the Golden Rule, things would be better. Golden Rule is treat others the way you want to be treated, right?
If so, I find it to be a good rule as well.

[Boxcar]

You're right. That's the rule. It is one of my favorite rules. (Yeah, I'm wierd. I have favorite rules...)

Everyone has buttons. Mine are related to communication choices. If I don't feel like someone is being respectful or constructive, I find it more challenging to reply postively. This is not to say that I can't or won't demonstrate tolerance in my own posts. It is just to say that I may get up on my little soapbox.

[Darthmat]

Everyone has buttons. Mine are related to communication choices. If I don't feel like someone is being respectful or constructive, I find it more challenging to reply postively. This is not to say that I can't or won't demonstrate tolerance in my own posts. It is just to say that I may get up on my little soapbox.I have the same problem. Ad hominem works really well on me, too.

[smithmt]

OK, I've crossed to the dark side (damn you Darth Mat) I have spoken to the students on their site and asked that they avoid here... That being said if anyone would like to talk to students to give our view, there is a post link Here (http://www.school-survival.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8773)

remember that this is voluntary, and that they are actually interested in what we think and why. hopefully they will actually respect our space, but I have been welcomed.
(please note, their site is to "Survive school" not to be a student-only zone) is this an amicable solution?

[Bananas]

No, certainly feel free to join! Your participation would be just as valued as anyone else's, if not more. As you can imagine, usually only the side of the student is represented, so it'd be great having teachers! And help with translation would be amazing!

I think I am pretty good with grammar. I don't notice many mistakes in my postings.
....
Wow, could you be more insulting? 1337, which many do not use on SS, is just a fun thing to do. Ppl who typ like dis r usualy frwnd upn.
(Translation: People who type like this are usually frowned upon.)
I'm sure teachers have it rough. But so do students.
In conclusion, I must say you are among the most condescending, generalizing, and insulting people I have ever met over the internet. Maybe if you changed your attitude towards teens, you could see we aren't so bad, and are people. Just like you. We are people!

Do you want to know one thing that really stands out in your post, Darthmat? Your comment about your being sure that teachers have it rough. Do you know why that really caught my attention? You were showing empathy. You try to see the other person's side. I really liked that.

I really hear you about students having it tough. I can think of many rough times throughout my school years, and I really wanted to learn and do well. I suffered from depression for many of the years, although doctors and people knew so little about it then. Some of my school experiences were awful, but life in other areas were also hollow, sad, etc. I think that being a student in school now is even much harder with all the knowledge, testing, peer pressures, both parents working (not that it is a bad thing), violence, etc.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a teen. I think many of us can remember being a teen and there are moments we would want to forget or not have to relive. If an adult looks around, one can see a lot of good things in teens.

When my son was in high school, his class had a grandparent day. Since we had moved Mom out to our neck of the woods, hubby picked her up and dropped her off to high school. The grandparents talked about times when they were growing up. There was an article in the paper and it ended up talking about a tall male teen who hugged his grandma and thanked her for coming to his class. He held the door open for her as she slowly made her way out using her walker. That was our son.

Son would stop by her assisted-living apartment with a friend or two to visit sometimes. He would hug her goodbye in front of his friends.

Whenever son has friends over, they always stop in the living room to say hello to Mr. and Mrs. Bananas and they take off their shoes as they come in the door.

When Mom was being rushed to the hospital in an ambulance and both hubby and I were out of town, son went over to the ER to gain medical info, hold Grandma's hand, and reassure her.

These are but a few things I can mention about my son. I can add more about my daughter. This is just a small sliver of things that I see. This is not unique to our family. Many of the youth I know have many qualities that will take them far in life. The passion for what they believe in and enjoy. The effort to become better. The time spent with their family. Their time spent finding a job and earning money to spend and for college.

I truly hope that youth do not think that all adults sell them short. Granted, we are not always happy with the attitudes. My daughter and I had many go-rounds through some tumultuous years. Her hormones would fly while my hormones would fly :eek: and the guys would run for cover. With the physical changes a teen goes through, it makes it all the harder. The best thing I learned with daughter was that her walls would come down if I A) gave her a massage or B) brushed her hair. She would then calm done long enough to be ready to hear what my decisions were based upon.

There are people who see mostly negative things about teens, but a good many of them probably see a lot of things negatively.

[smithmt]

I believe the biggest problem that many of us had (weather we were diplomatic or not) is that this realm, the Teacher's Corner, has been singularly for teachers since it's inception. We all enjoy this forum for being a teacher collaboration zone. It was OK when parents had questions, but students are another story. The students were just curious (which the Debate teacher in me wants to encourage) where as the parents were problem solving, which is more in line with the spirit of this site. I say we meet the kids where they are, and respect their expectations of their site, in the hopes that they respect our expectations here.

And I think the attitude on our part was resentment of "out of bounds" I believe that if the Q&A was originally set up there, we wouldn't have this problem. (also some of the name calling would have been avoided)

thoughts?

[Bananas]

One thought no one has mentioned, at least my eyes did not pick up upon it, is that this forum has owners. They have set this up and gone to great lengths to make the members happy. I think it is ultimately their decision in what they want to do with the forum. They had a reason for establishing this forum, and they know what they need to do to have this forum fit their vision.

[smithmt]

Wow, do you know what any of the explanations have been? I can't even imagine a good argument for keeping a child from an education...

To be fair, I've been researching this very issue, and even though it theoretically is possible - it has not been successfully done. So I guess, I was misinformed. I believe that no one has seriously tried... parents like the free daycare.

[Darthmat]

Bananas and smithmt, you two are really cool people. Oh crud...
I NEVER ADMITTED A TEACHER WAS COOL! IT WILL RUIN MY SOCIAL STATUS! DON'T SPREAD THIS AROUND! EVER!
Just kidding. Kids know I have great relationships with two of the teachers at my school. In fact, a good majority have great relationships with one of them.)

OK, I've crossed to the dark side (damn you Darth Mat) Glad to be of service. ;D

... they are actually interested in what we think and why. ... but I have been welcomed....
(please note, their site is to "Survive school" not to be a student-only zone) is this an amicable solution? I bolded (is that a proper word?) those snippets because I really felt it described this specific case, and SS (School Survival) in general. And I left that last sentence in there because Amicable is one of my Vocab words on my final. :p


Do you want to know one thing that really stands out in your post, Darthmat? Your comment about your being sure that teachers have it rough. Do you know why that really caught my attention? You were showing empathy. You try to see the other person's side. I really liked that. Thanks. :)
I know teachers have it rough. I can see it on there expressions, and in there actions. But even if I was completely unaware to my surroundings, they tell me some of the stuff they go through. And I think a bit more, no, a lot more of empathy is needed from both sides. It would make things a lot better.



I really hear you about students having it tough. I can think of many rough times throughout my school years, and I really wanted to learn and do well. I suffered from depression for many of the years, although doctors and people knew so little about it then. Some of my school experiences were awful, but life in other areas were also hollow, sad, etc. I think that being a student in school now is even much harder with all the knowledge, testing, peer pressures, both parents working (not that it is a bad thing), violence, etc. I haven't even entered the worst of it yet (High School), and already it's been a trip to hell and back. As I said before, I think if more teachers realized what we have to go through, and that sometimes we do have other things we have to do besides school, things would be a lot better.

(And since I don't make this page obscenely long, I won't quote the rest of your post.) Thank you for realizing we are humans. It may seem silly, but it means a lot.

[thunderstruck]

This is why there are certain problems when it comes to school. The teachers have their back up against the wall and have learned to expect nothing good from students, and students think that all teachers are hideous monsters. It's good that there's a medium which exists such as this, to lessen this situation.

[MsCoffeeLover]

Just kidding. Kids know I have great relationships with two of the teachers at my school. In fact, a good majority have great relationships with one of them.)
Glad to be of service. ;D


These are the kinds of things that immeasurable (sp). I think there are a lot of teachers that feel the same way. We do some of our best work one on one with the students, having a conversation here or there, getting to know a little bit about them and their interests, etc. We do so much that is behind the scenes or unseen that it is forgotten or doesn't exist. There are many more students than none that have a decent relationship with the teacher. Many of us have our own little way of trying to make each student feel special. It is different for every student, and only you and the student have that. It could be the smallest little thing, but it matters. Kids notice everything! Down to the shoes you are wearing!

[Bananas]

Well, I will add cool as one of my middle names. (If you have heard the expression, "__________________ is my middle name." I have expanded that to "one of my middle names". I am mean, nasty, grumpy, silly, weird, awesome, caring, impatient, unfair, etc. I have fun with that with my students.)

There are a lot of terrific teachers on this site, even though we do not always show our best sides. Believe it or not, a lot of teachers know all too well what students face. I think a lot of us remember what it was like while we were growing up. Also, a lot of us are also parents, so we see what our children go through, both as teachers and parents.

As educators, our area of expertise and emphasis is the academics. We are paid to do what we can to bring out the best. There are a lot of reasons why teachers say and/or expect things. Students, and sometimes their parents, do not realize always what is behind a teacher's reasoning. We see all the activities students are involved in after school, both inside and outside of school. We are well aware that we must place the importance on the academics over the sports/extracurriculars. However, the sports/activities can be the lifeline for many of our kids who are borderline. I cannot even begin to tell you the concerns we have about too many of the students' home lives.

The bridge between teachers and students does not have to span the mighty Mississippi. We are in this together and I learn from my students.

[MsCoffeeLover]

This is why there are certain problems when it comes to school. The teachers have their back up against the wall and have learned to expect nothing good from students, and students think that all teachers are hideous monsters. It's good that there's a medium which exists such as this, to lessen this situation.

Again, from the teacher perspective--we come in the door thinking every student is capable of learning and expect such. That is not to say there are few teachers should have left the field a few years, but there are many more who believe in the student and individual capabilities.

[Bananas]

No, certainly feel free to join! Your participation would be just as valued as anyone else's, if not more. As you can imagine, usually only the side of the student is represented, so it'd be great having teachers! And help with translation would be amazing!

I think I am pretty good with grammar. I don't notice many mistakes in my postings.
....
Wow, could you be more insulting? 1337, which many do not use on SS, is just a fun thing to do. Ppl who typ like dis r usualy frwnd upn.
(Translation: People who type like this are usually frowned upon.)
I'm sure teachers have it rough. But so do students.
In conclusion, I must say you are among the most condescending, generalizing, and insulting people I have ever met over the internet. Maybe if you changed your attitude towards teens, you could see we aren't so bad, and are people. Just like you. We are people!


This is why there are certain problems when it comes to school. The teachers have their back up against the wall and have learned to expect nothing good from students, and students think that all teachers are hideous monsters. It's good that there's a medium which exists such as this, to lessen this situation.

thunderstruck,
I keep going back to your comment about have learned to expect nothing good from students. I don't see evidence where I teach. Sometimes we long to see more from specific students we know are capable of more. I think we see something good in all.

[thunderstruck]

Oh, I didn't mean all teachers, or specifically you. I know that teaching is a labor of love. Some teachers, some, simply don't understand students. I mainly meant that. Students and teachers don't understand each other.

[AWOL]

I really think your getting it from our point of view now. Well, some. I know teachers have it tough, because I can see the expressions on their face. If it changes from happy to desperate to sad to angry relatively fast, you can tell they have it really tough.

Also, for those of you who still believe school is a good place for all people, then think about this. I attempted suicide twice because of the people at my school. Mostly teachers, and the vice-principal. That's before I found help at... Well you probably know where.

[Darthmat]

I think there are a lot of teachers that feel the same way. We do some of our best work one on one with the students, having a conversation here or there, getting to know a little bit about them and their interests, etc. We do so much that is behind the scenes or unseen that it is forgotten or doesn't exist. There are many more students than none that have a decent relationship with the teacher. Many of us have our own little way of trying to make each student feel special. It is different for every student, and only you and the student have that.
I agree with this. Which brings to another point, the student to teacher ratio is very large. With classrooms so large, it takes a rare teacher to hit home with every single one of them. How can true teaching happen like this?

[irish223]

I attempted suicide twice because of the people at my school. Mostly teachers, and the vice-principal. That's before I found help at... Well you probably know where.
Well, this sure got my attention. I am very, very sorry that school has been such a bad experience for you, and I wish I could do something to change it for you.

So, that brings my next question. What are the problems you've had with teachers at your school? Are you considered a behavior problem? (I'm not assuming, just guessing.) Although I'm an elementary teacher, I've had my share of students with behavior (and other) problems. I'm curious about what drives a student to feel as you do, and I sure don't want to be a part of the reason that a student would feel that way. What behavior in teachers contributes to that? Although I imagine we all believe we're fair and just, teachers are big on self-reflection. So, if you don't mind sharing, it might help me to see my actions, or lack of action, in a different light.

Where have your parents been in all this? If you've had such problems with the school staff, haven't your parents advocated for you in some way?


Also, for those of you who still believe school is a good place for all people, then think about this.
I think the original question was about compulsory education, not compulsory school attendance. Nothing will change my mind that education is necessary and important for everyone, but it doesn't have to take place in the local public school. There are alternatives that are a better fit for some students.

As for the other questions posed by you and your friends, truthfully, I'm not really interested in the debates. I come to this forum as a teacher, looking for ways to improve my practice or to help others in teaching. I'm also happy to help students, but I don't want to argue the pros and cons of education today. I get enough of that in my job! For me, this is a haven away from my job!

[Boxcar]

I refer to my students as exhibiting "challenging" behaviors. When a student is behaving in ways that are not constructive (i.e. throwing blocks, biting, ect.), I try to think of this as a challenge. How can I help this student? What can I do differently. The solution might take some time and effort, but it is worth it in the end.

Although this is obviously from a preschool teacher's viewpoint, it can be applicable to older grades as well.

I think ratios are really important. While I don't particularly like small schools or class size for myself, I can see that a large portion of the students would prefer these types of enviroments. Unfortunately, the turnover rate is very high - especially in lower SES areas. When there aren't even enough seats/desks in a classroom, the teacher can feel overwhelmed by the problems facing him/her. Getting the things to teach and fitting everyone in takes prioity. Forming a bond falls lower on the list.

I agree that some form of education is a must. An apprenticeship, studying in another country, an indepentant program, vocational training, or another option needs to be selected by the individual. No, the traditional way isn't the only way. However, there needs to be some sort of plan in place. Even just deciding "I'm interested in computers. Maybe I'll take a training seminar in computer forensics." is better than just sleeping in all day.

[Bananas]

Forming a bond can be done while teaching the things and fitting everyone in, Boxcar. I am at an advantage in that area, though. Teaching children with special needs allows me to work with the same students for up to six years and smaller sizes. (Sometimes those smaller sizes just aren't small enough). Slipping in a small, yet meaningful comment helps form that bond, bit by bit.

I figure I have some sort of bond when the kids come up to me to tell me how they helped their older brother, the truck trouble they had while coming home with an auction, etc. as they call me over for help. Asking how their day was as they come in the door and get settled, etc. Letting them invite a friend into my room to eat their lunch, etc. There are so many ways. I have found that little things like these allow some students to open up about what is bothering them and need ears to listen. They need to know that adults care about them and that they do indeed matter.

I also share some little snippets of my personal life and family as it ties in with my lessons. Zacchaeus worms his way in often to what is said in my classroom. A casual observer would think I am wasting valuable teaching time or so into myself and looking for any kind of an audience. I have my reasons, though. Students' attention is drawn back toward the lesson. They make connections to themselves and enter into the discussion. Dogs are universal and help to open them up and join the discussion. The personal connections help bring up memories for some writing ideas when they are dry. So much more as well!

[Aziz]

I'm so sorry, AWOL! I was in the same position as you. Some of my experiences at school led me to attempt suicide several times. One of the reasons I became a teacher was so I could ensure students a classroom atmosphere that was nothing like the one I was in. I have tried to make something good out of these bitter feelings by taking the saying "be the change you want to see" to heart.

The reaction my teachers and parents had to certain incidents led me to suicidal feelings as much as the incidents themselves. What happened was bad enough, but the fact that at the time, my teachers and parents just blamed me when the teachers were clearly in the wrong is what led me to a drastic decision.

It sounds to me like you have a lot of anger to sort through because of wrongs that were done to you by teachers and administrators. I'm scared to know what your teachers and vice-principal did that caused you that much pain. I think it's very courageous of you to face your pain by coming here and asking questions. I had a feeling there were some intense feelings behind some of your statements, and not just lack of manners. I'm glad you came forward with them so that we could approach your situation with more compassion.

I have come to process such feelings so that now I can even walk back in a classroom, free of negative associations. I am sure that with time you will be able to do the same, so that you do not have to carry this bitterness with you for life. Coming here and discussing with us is the first step. You really are a brave soul!

-Aziz

[Boxcar]

I'm sorry for those who have had negative classroom experiences.

As a teacher, I hope that I make my classroom a ggod place to be. I would like to think that I am in the majority... Hopefully, that is so.

Good luck on the road to becmeing stronger "because of" and "in spite of".

[Bananas]

The main reasons my school has uniforms are, as far as I can tell, to deter truancy and to make it obvious if anybody who isn't a student at the school has managed to get in.

The problems we have with truancy on a "non-uniform day" suggest that this does make a real difference.

That is an interesting point, oldandrew. I had not heard of that premise before.

[smithmt]

I agree with this. Which brings to another point, the student to teacher ratio is very large. With classrooms so large, it takes a rare teacher to hit home with every single one of them. How can true teaching happen like this?

Darth Mat, can I call you Mat for short? I think this question would be better asked; "How can true LEARNING happen like this. This question is the heart of VERY thing we are trying to improve on this very website. If truth be told... we don't. it is statistically impossible to guarantee 100% proficiency in students on any given topic. there are many reasons for this, the most obvious is the teacher whose quit (please reference the Nick Nolte Movie, Teachers, and the theatre who "dies" without being noticed for several days) these teachers do the rote lessons that they "perfected" in college and cling to through today. However, the majority of us actually revise our lessons from year to year.

My best example is a lesson that another theatre teacher in the district and I found on the internet called Visit to Broadway. The author slips my mind and is no longer named on the page. We changed it to use technology. (the online source suggested posters, but I'm a big PowerPoint [referred to as PPT here on in] fan) so we redesigned it. I had my students do an evaluation on it from a technology standpoint, and I revised it, that lesson now includes an introduction about how to use PPT correctly, along with a sample PPT made by me about another play that is no longer on Broadway, several days to find information, a couple of days to piece it together and two days of presentation.

I am now redesigning my curriculum for a couple of reasons... I've changed states, so I'm tailoring it to what they want me to teach (whether I think it's a good change or not) I also need to modify it to fit Learning-Focused standards, which is a method of using Blooms taxonomy (http://www.officeport.com/edu/blooms.htm) to increase the amount my students are retaining.


And yes, I know the argument is "How will Theatre help my student pass the test?" and frankly, I don't care. I can feed a bunch of statistics about how an intense program like performing arts, or football will encourage retention in school, but you know what? It's an art. I have come to the conclusion that, yes it has positive side effects; kids stay in school, they get better grades, they are better spoken adults, they have better problem solving skills, but when it comes down to brass tax, I don't care about any of those things... They are nice, but the starched shirts have been ignoring those conclusions since the early nineties when the earliest results were published on the issue. Here we are 15 years later and they keep cutting the budgets and the programs... so I say lets forget about the benefits that these programs have on society, lets look at the fact that this art form is the primary entertainment for the majority of Western culture. If Theatre programs cease to exist... we will be stuck with reality TV, and I believe that means that Running Man will be more than a good book/interesting movie.


Boxcar, thanks for the loan of the soapbox.

[AWOL]

They really didn't give a damn about me. And the vice principal was just cruel. You couldn't eat until you'd wiped your table. And our class was the most messy ever. Also, now I'm not a behaviour problem, I normally stay quiet unless someone says something really wrong like 'Gays are evil', 'No, I'm saying that your opinion doesn't matter because this is a teachers' forum and you're a kid.' and perhaps 'Nerds are the scum of society'. Yeah things like that.

[Tiamat]

What would you do if a student refused to wear a unfirom because he says he is protected by freedom of expression.

Direct him to the school policy that says this is a uniform school. However, in the long run, we can't enforce uniform by anything but cultural and community expectations as this is a public school. However, uniforms in most schools are an accepted thing and in practice we have very little difficulty.


Also what are your views on uniforms. Do you think they promote unity? I once heard on a different forum someone saying that uniforms made people smarter. The general reaction from the website I come from was in general 'what's next, homework being proven to relax a student's mind?

I like them. They are simple, they are easy, they are (in our school) inexpensive. I think they do promote a sense of belonging and unity. In a high school situation (we are primary) they enable teachers/staff to see at a glance who belongs on school grounds and who doesn't. They enable easy identification of students on an excursion or when otherwise out in the community. They provide the community with a quick and easy identification of our students (which can be both good and bad, I have to say). They remove a lot of the competitiveness over wardrobe (particularly among adolescent and pre-adolescent girls). You don't have "cool" clothes if you're all wearing the same clothes.

As much as I like them, though, I don't think they make kids smarter. I wish.

[smithmt]

...'Nerds are the scum of society'. Yeah things like that.

I won't respond to the other things that irritate you, but this one I know for a fact is incorrect. The truth is that everyone of us calls a nerd 'Boss,' that holds true in every company, school of other way of employment. the majority of businessmen who own the majority of the world are nerds; Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs. But I guarantee that the last two have a whole army of nerds helping them create new innovations like the Iphone.

Going back to the beginning to address a question I missed;


Also what are your views on uniforms. Do you think they promote unity? I once heard on a different forum someone saying that uniforms made people smarter. The general reaction from the website I come from was in general 'what's next, homework being proven to relax a student's mind?

I Agree with the Albert Einstein method of clothing... here is an internationally renowned physicist who owned five suits that were the same cut, and color. Five shirts and ties too. this way he didn't have to waste one bit of thinking power on what he was going to wear. I believe that for schools, the same thought could apply. Kids don't have to think about what to wear, and it would always be in dress code.

[Boxcar]

I don't like uniforms. No philosophy or good points here. Just this: I like to wear clothes that fit me in comfortable ways. It is very hard for a curvy woman to find a button-down blouse that doesn't gap in the front! If someone can suggest a brand or company, I'd really appreciate it. I also have long arms and legs, so I have trouble finding sizes. I need a Tall in pants. No, going up a size makes them too big everywhere else. So, how do I pick from the tiny selection of permissable clothes? There are few companies that will sell you navy blue pants in a Tall. That is another thing: Why not let black pants be part of the dress code? They are easy to find. Why does it have to be blue? I can't walk into Target or Khols and find navy pants.

Of course, I recognize the good points of uniforms. I'm not making an arguement for or against them. I am just commenting on my own struggles.

[Darthmat]

Erm.. a nerd means being a divergent thinker. Nothing more.

[Boxcar]

On a light note - nerds are also a form of candy...

[Bananas]

I bought tank tops at about 5 bucks a pop last year in a myriad of pretty colors, Boxcar. I am very tall as well, so I sometimes wear the tank with a coordinating blouse as a cover. Gaps in buttons are moot then.

[AWOL]

Lol, I can back that comfortability statement. Me and my friend have fallen in love with out sports pants. No painful zippers for when we feel a little curious. Seriously, they kill.

[smithmt]

On a light note - nerds are also a form of candy...

NERDS ROCK!!! they are the best!

[Bananas]

NERDS ROCK!!! they are the best!


You little tart. ;)

[Boxcar]

Thanks for the suggestion, Bananas! The Old Navy site has some really pretty colors. I'll have to get some. :)