Classroom Discipline

[mickey31]

I'm a new teacher, teaching 7th and 8th grade math. I'm having an awful time with classroom discipline. I have one class in particular that seems to complain about everything I do. I know from some reflection that I need to follow through better on the things I say. I have tried to implement several incentive systems as well, but it seems they don't like anything I come up with. My biggest problem is talking and time off-task. Lately I feel like I have been writting up detention after detention and nothing changes. I know detentions aren't the greatest solution either, because I need something that will address the issue right then, not two days later. What are some suggestions for consequences and incentives I could use to help? I have been trying all year to get better, but I feel like I keep getting worse and I'm really starting to feel awful about it!!:(

[Ima Teacher]

I'm a big fan of Randy Sprick's CHAMPs management program. It focuses on planning your routines and teaching them to the students so everybody always knows what to expect. I think it's great!

[MsCoffeeLover]

I have one class in particular that seems to complain about everything I do.

I have tried to implement several incentive systems as well, but it seems they don't like anything I come up with.(

There are a few things that have helped me over the past few years. However, I am not going to state that my way is the right way as I am working on letting up and relaxing a bit myself. Also, I just observed another teacher and left her class with a headache, so I am a tad out of sorts.

1. It is your classroom, not theirs. They don't have to like anything or like you for that matter. You aren't there to be liked or be their friends because they have plenty of friends. They need a teacher. They have their job as a student, and you have your job as a teacher. However, a positive environment can still be nurtured.

2. Before I became a teacher, I tutored middle school kids. None of them needed tutoring. All of them were failing because they didn't do their homework or classwork. With that said, I don't want to say that middle schoolers are lazy, but they do tend to be a little crafty in how they handle things. Parents that have had no problems with their child EVER all of a sudden have problems in middle school. It is often easier to place a little blame on the teacher for this.

3. It is great that you have incentives, but you don't have to have them. I am the only teacher on my team that actually has incentives. The rest of them don't believe in rewarding students for expected behaviors. So, if they don't like them or not, who cares? They had the option, and now they have none.

4. Many,but not all, kids will complain and will do whatever you allow them to get away with. The moment my kids complain, I have an alternate assignment that is far more demanding that what I had originally planned. It is so demanding that it makes my teaching look like the best concert performance. Complain once, they get the alternate assignment, and then give them the assignment. Make it count as a grade and follow through. If they don't want to do the required work, they definitely won't want to do the alternate work. Out of all my classes, this happened once this year, and it has yet to happen since. I even told the kids to spread the word about how mean I was. Now I can have those wonderful and exciting power points, and no one says a word!! The class will even help you out with other students to avoid the extra work.

5. What is your school discipline policy? If you follow the policy as outlined in the students agendas, that is half the battle right there. After two detentions, our kids get a referral. When you give a detention, we have a form that needs to be completed by the student and parent. My detentions are after school. If the kids are going to take up my instructional time, I am going to take away from their free time as well as their parents time!! The more you get the parents involved from the get go, the less hassle it will be all the way around. Referrals do not get processed if you haven't taken all of the necessary preventative measures. If you write too many of them, folks think you can't manage your classroom. When they show up for detention, make that detention the worst detention EVER!! My parents gave me the best ideas to discipline their child!! The point of detention is to never return to detention.

6. Go out of your way to ignore behaviors you don't like and go out of your way to praise the kids that are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Praise goes farther than anyone could ever imagine. Many things are done for attention, so you can send positive or negative attention a person's way.

7. Whenever one kid is taxing me, I look at the kid that isn't and send a very nice note home to the parents. Sometimes I make a positive phone call home.

8. Send random notes home to parents--especially good ones. Make it a point to send more positive notes home than negative. It sets up a good positive interpersonal relationships, and then the parents are much more helpful. Send a certain number per week.

9. Even if you send several negative notes home, and that taxing student had a good day. Celebrate that day with a nice note home to the parents just to build the positive branch. If parents are constantly contacted about negativity and then you bring about something positive, it makes their day.

10. For 7-9, those kinds of things let the parents know you care.

I am so not done, but my head really aches. There is a lot you can do, but the main thing is to follow policy, follow through on consequences, mean what you say and say what you mean, and try to counter act all negatives with even more positives.

Hope that helps.

[Chef Dave]

In addition to MsCoffeelover's excellent advice, I would also offer the following suggestion. Be firm, fair, and consistent.

Do not let the kids rattle you. As MsCoffeelover said, it's YOUR classroom. If you let the kids rattle you and if you shy away from the enforcement of basic expectations, you will effectively undermine your class management policy.

If you have posted rules, enforce them on a consistent basis. If you don't have posted rules, I would recommend that you put them up as soon as possible. Once the rules go up, you should review them with each class.

Since I am a culinary arts teacher (at high school, not middle school), I always have food and beverages on hand to use for motivational incentives. I also have pots for students to scrub, cardboard boxes that have to be broken down, and trash to empty. It definitely helps that my classroom is separate from our commercial kitchen ... so students who are not well behaved can be segregated from their audience/supporters.

Food of course, is a huge motivator. Students who stay on task are often given treats of Danishes or cookies. If students have produced a product, they usually get a portion of whatever they made.

One of the perks of being a culinary arts student is the privilege of getting complimentary drinks. We have a soda dispenser with 8 fountain heads. We also have a punch dispenser with three choices. On rare occasions I even offer soft ice cream - either chocolate or vanilla ... or ice cream sandwiches.

When I was a core academic elementary classroom teacher, I kept a grab jar on my desk. The grab jar was filled with sugar free candies, toys, pencils, erasers, colored markers, and little slips of paper with question marks written on the outside. Each paper contained a different reward: 15 minutes free computer time, freedom for the student to sit wherever he or she would like for one class period, first choice of toys before going to recess, the opportunity to eat lunch in the classroom with one friend etc.

I used the grab jar in conjunction with graded assignnments. Students who did well or showed marked improvement got a, "See me for a treat" note written on their paper. Each "see me for a treat note" was worth 5 seconds for getting a treat from the grab jar. Students with more than one note got additional time to get their treats i.e. 4 notes times 5 seconds = 20 seconds.

Students only had a set amount of time to get their treats. When I said, "GO!" they could begin grabbing treats ... but they had to have their hands out of the jar before I finished the count. Failure to have their hands out of the jar meant that I chose their treats for them.

I typically used Friday to pass out graded papers and reward students. You should have seen the look on the faces of students who did NOT get to go the grab jar. Some of them acted as though they didn't care when in fact they really did.

I always monitored initial use of the grab jar and noted which kids were not able to go. During the coming week, I gently encouraged those students to participate, to stay on task, to ask questions, and to complete their work. I looked for excuses to send them to the grab jar and in many cases was able to turn negative and self defeating behavior around.

[Mountshasta]

It is hard to offer up a new management idea and not think of it as just another handy hint. Sounds like you have tried the traditional interventions-- detention, tangible incentives etc.

Ask yourself about any of the following techniques that are so effective you only have to use them a few times to have the students eliminate their inappropriate behavior:

1. nagging
2. trip to the office
3. name on the board
4. yelling
5. repeating request
6. ignoring
7. discussing the problem

If you really want to get discipline off your back today, tomorrow, and rest of your career it may help to focus on skills which allow you, while on your feet, to prevent behaviors you don't want, stop behaviors that occur, and start behaviors you want. This gets you out of the business of writing referrals, relying on the office, contacting parents, managing incentives not to mention stress and burn-out which often accompanies constantly dealing with discipline on a daily basis.

In case you feel like you are the only one with discipline problems consider research:

1. Urban and suburban schools - One disruption per student per minute
2. Disruption in the average classroom during seat work
a. Talking to neighbors 80%
b. Out of seat 15%
c. Others (bugging, notes, 5%
pencils, chairs, etc.)
3. In a typical non-problem classroom, one-third of the students are goofing off during independent work.
4. The rate of disruptions doubles as soon as the teacher sits down for small group instruction.
5. Big crises are so rare relative to these common disruptions that, although stressful, they have a minor impact on learning.

Small , typical classroom disruptions cost the teacher in two ways:

Teacher Stress - The average teacher makes about 500 management decisions per day. Exhaustion at the end of the day or week is primarily the result of tension and the constant emotional mobilization that is required to deal with the small moment-to-moment classroom disruptions.

Time on Task - In a typical classroom, the students are on task during seat work approximately 60% of the time. When a teacher is conducting small group sessions, time on task among "independent" workers drops to 40%. The Far West BTES study showed that the main variable in student performance is amount of time they are on task in the classroom.

[jschweitzer]

What I have discovered in my teaching and speaking with other educators is that the more irritated you get from the class behavior, the more the students will feed off of that. Some students, especially at the middle school level, will try to get the teacher all upset. My suggestion is to be as consistent as possible. I do not believe that detentions work on most students. What I do instead is give them a warning and if they continue with the poor behavior I have them sit by themselves and write a letter home explaining what they did. When the letter is complete, make a copy and mail it home. After a couple students do this the rest of the class gets the idea that you mean business and usually just a warning is needed. But like the others have said, it is always a good idea to praise the students who are doing a good job.

[Oak Tree]

Mountshasta

Where are those stats from?

MsCoffeeLover

That was a great post.

mickey31

I've been having the same kind of problems.

[MissTeach]

Lots of great suggestions have been made! We are all different and have different classroom management techniques. You will have to pick what works best for you. I am not one for all the incentives, but I know many teachers that use those and have great success. A couple of teachers at my school use 'free time' incentives. Each class gets so many points on their 'good behavior days' and for reaching goals on assignments. When they get enough points, they get a day to use the 'game room' or to watch a movie and have snacks.

Just remember to be consistent at whatever you do. If you say you will write a referral for the next student who speaks out of turn, then do it! Be firm and assertive when you speak. Chef Dave's suggestion about posting rules is a great idea. Post your rules and go over them with each class. Then enforce them.

Don't debate with the students. When you state something and they start to protest, tell them it is not a suggestion nor a debate. Don't let them mess with you. If one student won't cooperate, remove them from the room and talk to them without their classmates listening. Have them sign a misbehavior log and tell them that the next time they get a referral, or time after school, or whatever is available at your school.

At the beginning of every class, I give my students a short five minute assignment. When they walk into the class, the assignment is on the board. They know to start as soon as the bell rings. This gets the students on task immediately. They know they will receive a grade for the assignment.

It really helps to have a basic routine for your class so students know what to expect-especially at the junior high level. You can change the routine occassionally, but students need consistency.

The suggestions for working with the parents are excellent suggestions. You may need to contact the parents of the 'ring leaders' in your class.

Don't give up! Keep working and find the techniques that work best for you!!!

[Flipp]

Another idea.

Involve your students in setting the rules of the classroom. Make it THEIR room. They (with your guidance) create the rules, (you'll be surprised, they'll come up with the rules you'd have set anyway, and probably a few more) and let them help you create the consequences and rewards. Put all the class rules up on a poster, and if someone breaks a rule, remind them that THEY created the rules. It's out of your hands, you didn't make the rules, you just enforce them.
Also make sure they have jobs. Do you review homework? Have a student do it. Kids collect homework, put them in alphabetical order and report to you who didn't do it. Do you have plants in your room?, kids water the plants, whatever, so long as as many kids as possible and practical have a job.
The more structure they have, the less time to goof off.
The more ownership they feel of the class, the less they want to rebel.

[MsCoffeeLover]

Another excellent suggestion, Flipp! Kids know what the rules are, and by allowing them to help create them, they feel as though they have done something important. Posting the rules and consequences for all to see imperative. At the beginning of every year, I quiz my kids on the rules, consequences, and expectations. That quiz is graded too! I try to do this at mid year as well, right in time for New Years and new goals!! Through out the year, I also throw in a reminder as an opening activity. Right before a test, one of the openers is always, "What are at least five test taking rules for Miss Coffee Lover's class?"

Test days mean no "communication of any kind," and doing so results in getting your test taken away, a zero in the grade book, and the option to make it up after school with parent permission. At that point, they can't receive a grade any higher than a 70. I also grade the test I just took away to show them what they would have gotten.

I told them what I was going to do, and I did it. Consistency is key! Mean what you say and say what you mean!

The job thing is excellent too!! You can have weekly helpers. For some reason, kids love to erase the dry erase boards, collect papers, staple things, hole punch things, organize materials, take attendance, walk around with the trash can, etc.

You have to keep middle schoolers busy.

[MissTeach]

Having the students help create the rules is an excellent suggestion. At the beginning of each year, my classes create a mission statement and then we set rules for class to help us meet our mission. The students keep these in their folders and we review them each quarter.

[DarrenB]

Great comments and suggestions. And, if you haven't had enough yet, here's one more.

Take the time to teach the behaviors you want in your class. You'll need to clearly define these behaviors. For instance, how should your students get your attention? Teach this to them. How should they listen? Teach this to them. Then, create a system of rewards for students who meet your expectations.

Like several others have said, you must consistently implement your expectations. They'll be watching you to see where you're weak, and if you're not consistent, everything falls apart.

Good luck!

Darren B.

[Humaira Kaleem]

In order to have discipline there will be consequences for bad decisions. This does not mean that consequences must be harsh to accomplish its job. Harsh consequences do not accomplish much except for breeding hatred. Consequences should fit the offense. Often the natural consequence is the best.

If we discipline in anger, our judgment can be in error. It is important to act, not react. We need to keep our calm in the face of problems. It will be a healthier approach for us, and our students will learn from our problem solving abilities.

Classroom control, like teaching, requires personalization--what works best for you is what you should do.

[Boxcar]

You've gotten lots of good advice. So, I'll just wish you "good luck". Good luck!

[MsCoffeeLover]

Another thing that helps is getting to know a little something about your students.You can still be consistent with consequences as outlined by school policy, but creative consequences work well too.

At the beginning of the year, I will stop class to call a parent. It only takes once or twice, and that sends a super huge message. The student has to go to the phone, dial the number, tell their parents why they are calling, and then hand the phone to me. They have to fess up to parents before I get on the phone with them. The parent always asks to talk to their child before we hang up. Very effective.

Still, I personally make it a point to discover what a student hates and will be upset of they have to do such a thing during detention. It doesn't take much because kids talk all the time whether you are there or not. Listen in and use that information against them. I tell them that on the first day, and, for some reason, students that probably should hate me actually like me. It is quite baffling, but funny at the same time.

So, as they are walking an talking, one student will talk about how they had to write sentences, and other students are like, "Shoot! I ain't writin' no sentences! or I don't clean up at home, so I ain't cleaning up here." Then detention comes around, and they are doing exactly what they said they wouldn't do. One student offered me ten dollars to stop writing sentences. I didn't take it, but I did smile, ate candy he liked right in front of him, and told him to keep writing. If you get me for detention, you will have to scrape gum, clean desks, and vaccuum. Our vacuums in the trailer are super heavy, and I smile as I watch students use all their energy to push it and move desks out of the way to vaccum underneath them. On detention days, my last period class is instructed not to clean up.

Detentions aside, there is a lot you can do individually. Just by communicating via email has helped a lot. If a student is disruptive, they see me go to the computer to email a parent, and I watch them run to their desks. There are certain parents available by email more than others. Periodic announcements help you find out who those parents are, and that really helps.

Car riders and dances should be used to your advantage. For those parents that pick up their kids, that is one stop parent shopping. Saves you time in the long run.

We have content area nights for PTSA. Science night is always a hit, and we tend to offer some nice extra credit grade for students. One teacher offered a test grade and was surprised by the number of students and parents he met that night.

Send a little power to the parents. They will help you devise ways too! I never thought about work detail for detention until one parent told me to give his son work detail and make him miserable. Parents will surprise you.

The interpersonal relationships you make with your students and parents is exhausting, but it is less exhausting than so many other things. The more you do stuff on your own, the more administration helps you when you do write a referral.

[MissTeach]

Very true MsCoffeLover! This past week I had a student who would not do what I asked. She refused to work for an entire class period. So I kept her after class, but she would not talk to me. I emailed her mother and 'mom' was there first thing the next morning. The mother requested putting the student in ISD until she caught up her work. After checking with the other teachers, we found out the student hadn't been working in any classes all week. Now she will have plenty of time to work. She was in tears and begging not to go to ISD.

[Aziz]

Still, I personally make it a point to discover what a student hates and will be upset of they have to do such a thing during detention.

So, as they are walking an talking, one student will talk about how they had to write sentences, and other students are like, "Shoot! I ain't writin' no sentences! or I don't clean up at home, so I ain't cleaning up here." Then detention comes around, and they are doing exactly what they said they wouldn't do. One student offered me ten dollars to stop writing sentences. I didn't take it, but I did smile, ate candy he liked right in front of him, and told him to keep writing. If you get me for detention, you will have to scrape gum, clean desks, and vaccuum. Our vacuums in the trailer are super heavy, and I smile as I watch students use all their energy to push it and move desks out of the way to vaccum underneath them. On detention days, my last period class is instructed not to clean up.

Listen in and use the information against them? Smile while making them serve detention? You really put that much energy into punishing your students? Wow. My school doesn't even have detention. And if it did--I would most likely give it out very, very rarely, if ever.

If a student of mine were blatantly not doing his/her work in any of his/her classes, I would see if there is a reason behind it before automatically dishing out detentions. If s/he were going through a hard time, I would try to talk to him or her. If s/he just had no motivation, I would try to restore that sense of motivation. I guess we just have very different styles of teaching, MsCoffeeLover.

-Aziz

[Oak Tree]

Aziz

Are most of your students from middle class backgrounds or higher?

[MsCoffeeLover]

Aziz, some of my methods are more strict, but it also depends upon the student. There are students that don't get detentions from me EVER. Before I issue a detention, a student will get warnings as well as time with me to discuss the issue. An email may be all that it takes. I am very in tune to all of my kids behaviors, and I know when they are out of sorts or having a bad day or acting unlike themselves. That is a separate issue.

There are a few students who think they are higher up the pecking order or just too cool for a detention or just flat out disrespectful. Specific behaviors need consequences, and a detention is a consistent consequence, but what they do while serving the detention is a different ball game.

When I say I go out of my way to find out what they dislike, it isn't that much effort because I asked that question at the beginning of the year with student and parent communication surveys along with interests and the like. However, teachers are always tuned in to what their students are doing because they have to be. We are conditioned to be listening for any number of things. Kids talk. That is just what they do. While waiting for buses, they are just chatting away. While walking to the cafeteria, they are just chatting away.

It's great that you can have the rapport you have, and you make it sound as though you have that same thing with all of your students and your school is just an education Utopia. Well, most of us are in the public school system. We have many students that fit the description of what you post about. However, there are other behaviors that are out there that we as teachers have no choice because it is the public school system.

Why am I really smiling? Well, it really just boils down to kids not believing you unless it happens. I said I was going to do these things, and then I follow through on them. I am forever laughing because I say what I am going to do, and then I do it, and students shouldn't be shocked any more, but they still are.

[Aziz]

Yes, Oaktree. However, rich people have plenty of problems just as everyone else. Financial problems just isn't one of them. They have materialistic parents who show "love" by buying them expensive clothing. They have parents who care more about their careers than their families. These students are under so much pressure to get into Yale, Harvard or Brown. It may be hard for the rest of us to sympathize with them, but for them, those problems are just as real as the family that cannot afford to pay the rent, or the single mother who is just scraping by on disability. The problems are different, but no less for them than our problems are for us.

The school I went to had a lot of socioeconomic diversity. Some families had left behind all their fortunes in a Middle Eastern country and were starting anew in this country. Others' parents were royalty--literally--from those same countries. The school atmosphere was much more formal, the consequences more severe. It was a different culture, but I don't think it was tied to the students' socioeconomic status. In the end, I don't think the structured atmosphere was holding the student body in place.

About 30% of the student body at my current school is lower-middle class. We have a strong financial aid department because the richer students' parents bring in a lot of money for scholarships. The socioeconomic diversity at my current school isn't quite as varied as the one I went to as a student, but even the same, the students at my current school who aren't as well off don't cause trouble any more than their richer peers. In fact, if anything, they have a hunger to succeed because they didn't start out with a silver spoon in their hand. Getting in trouble would create an obstacle between where they are and their goals.

MsCoffeeLover, I understand it boils down to a difference in our style of teaching. I have a hard time understanding how your students' being shocked at your following through elicits a smile from your end. There may be a part of the picture I'm missing.

There are students who as Freshman see themselves as above everyone else, as having a sense of entitlement. "Oh yeah? Well, my grandfather invented color television!" And yet, they come out of our system having gained a lot of insight. These same kids graduate as Seniors with a sense of responsibility. "Since I am better off, I need to focus my attention on the larger problems. Since I have no problem paying the rent, I will try to help save the environment." Obviously it varies from student to student, but I have noticed being humble and respectful has to do more with personality than with class.

-Aziz

[MissTeach]

I'm thinking about starting next year with a short unit over manners and proper ettiqute for the classroom. I always have a unit on study habits, so I could implement this one right before that unit. HHHmmmm

[Oak Tree]

Aziz, I'm not saying it's easy or that I could do it but when you talk about how you handle your classes it's pretty obvious you're dealing with rich kids.

[Boxcar]

I do a unit of social skills in the beginning for the preschoolers. For some, this is thier first time in a classroom setting. I mean, a number of them are watched at home centers, relatives' houses, ect. so they aren't used to the whole group-routine thing.

I'm not sure what SES has to do with teaching class disciplne... I guess it is different at your level, though. Do you mean the lower SES students are too jaded now to benefit?

[DarrenB]

I think it's always important to clearly define expected behaviors, teach them early on, and reinforce them consistently. I even go so far as to teach my students how to listen, how to get the teacher's attention, what it means to be tardy, things like that. I teach, we practice, I test, and then I reinforce using rewards and consequences.

This method has worked across many different class, racial, and social boundaries. Consistency is the key.

And a good smile, like so many others have said...

Darren

[Boxcar]

i think you are so right about consistancy. That is really important.