"Pick your Battles"

[MsCoffeeLover]

Hello all,

This is my first topic, so bear with me if this has been talked about too much. When I was posting in another thread, this thought came across, and as teachers we often have to "pick our battles," but those battles aren't defined or rather they are "user defined."

One of my battles is gum chewing. Personally, I can't stand it. Whenever I see a student with gum, I asked them to throw it out, and they do so. Gum chewing is not allowed, and there are consequences for it, but after two detentions a student gets a referral, and I can't bring myself to write a referral for gum chewing. The kids know it is wrong and spit it out when asked, but still, I really hate it. However, during detentions some kids have to scrape the gum from the bottom of the students desks, and that has actually helped with the gum chewing a little.

Another one is the dress code. This is my fourth school, and for the life of me, there is a dress code, but I can't remember what it is. All the codes blend together after a while. Unless something is blatantly obvious, I don't even think twice about how they are dressed. Maybe I should pay more attention, but that is a battle the kids can have.

We are lucky at this school. The cell phone and communications device policy is strict. If they have one in class, a teacher collects it, turns it in to the front office, and a parent comes to pick it up. After the first offense, I can't remember what happens because I haven't had that second offense yet. A thing about cell phones was mentioned in another thread.

Class materials. I am still working on this one. I always keep pens, pencils, and paper for those folks that need them, but now I am discovering the same people asking for these things. These kids will never come prepared as long as I keep them supplied, but on the grand scheme of things to worry about, these seems lesser.

Does anyone have any "pick your battle" stories to share or advice to offer?

[busbus]

Hello,

I must confess, I was one of those "gum chewing" students when I was in school. In fact, my 6th grade teacher knew the flavors I chewed and would tell me to empty my mouth of the (correctly named) gum. Wow! How did he know that!

He was the same teacher to correct me from writing very, very small, with a backhand slant, and using a very light lead pencil. I got a test paper back and thought that I had gotten a 100! Boy did my bubble bust! Instead of using "C" to indicate "correct," he used a capital "R" and he made them very, very small, using a backhand slant and pressing lightly with his pencil. He still used the "X" to indicate incorrect answers and used the same technique as he did with the "R." I couldn't tell the difference between the "R" and the "X." He fooled me by marking my entire test paper with a red pencil. You can imagine the conversation we had when I questioned him about the grade at the top of the paper. It just didn't correlate with all of these "R" right answers. I couldn't even get mad with him, then, it's funny now. He kept a poker face while discussing my paper with me. He used his normal voice but a matter of fact tone. What could I say, HE WAS RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG! So, I learned my lesson. I even tried this strategy with some of my students. It worked for me, also. :D

[Ima Teacher]

I think that a big portion of success with middle school is knowing what battles to fight. I could go round and round on just about anything if I chose to do so, but I have better things to do than get in an argument with a 12 year old . . . those never go well.

I hate gum. It makes me gag. There is a "no gum" rule for the school. If I see gum, I ask the student to spit it out. I am not, however, the gum police. I have other things to do. The kids know to spit when I say spit. Do I notice gum every time? No. I notice it when they're passing it to their buddies, blowing huge bubbles, or playing with it. I do not send them to the office for gum. Gum is not an office issue.

As for the dress code, we check that first period every day and send offenders' names to the office. I have to make myself do that as I typically wouldnt' notice if a student were NUDE if he/she happened to be behaving and doing what I wanted. However, I do make myself check because heaven forbid that I miss one because anyone else who was caught that day will commence with a chorus is "That's not fair."

I'm just not into battles, so I choose carefully.

[Chef Dave]

Does anyone have any "pick your battle" stories to share or advice to offer?

Years ago when I was a younger teacher, I supplemented my teaching income by driving a school bus for the district before and after school.

Since I was a classroom teacher, the dispatcher assigned me one of the more difficult routes. I was given the most troublesome bus in the district. The middle school kids on this bus were so bad that three previous drivers had quit within the last two months.

The kids were every bit as bad as I had been told. They wouldn't sit down. They ate on the bus. They threw empty soda cans at cars on the interstate.

I followed department policy. I pulled the bus over to the shoulder, parked the vehicle, and told the children that if they couldn't behave, I wouldn't take them home. I'd take the bus back to the transportation depot and the kids would have to stand in line to call home.

A kid started a chant, "Shut the F**K up!" The entire bus picked up the chant. "Shut the F**K up!" Someone threw a soda can at me.

No problem. I took the bus back to the transportation depot. I told the dispatcher what had happened. Half of the kids got off the bus to call home. The others refused to get off the bus and loudly told me that I HAD to take them home.

I left the kids on the bus and went home myself.

On the following day as I was driving down the interstate, a kid put his hands over my eyes and said, "Guess who." I immediately began braking and yelled at the kid to get his hands off me before we had an accident.

The kid wouldn't listened and because we were on the interstate in moderately heavy traffic, I took action. Having slowed the bus to what I estimated was now a crawl, I momentarily took both hands off the steering wheel. I made a fist with my right hand, cupped the palm of my left hand over the fist, and rammed my right elbow into the kid's stomach.

The kid doubled over with a gasp, releasing his hands so that I could see. Putting on my emergency blinkers, I pulled the bus over to the shoulder.

The kids rallied to the defense of the young twerp who had nearly caused an accident. Not only would the kid not give me his name, but the rest of the bus began throwing soda cans, wads of paper, apple cores, and other junk at me.

I took the bus back to the transportation depot. The child who had covered my eyes was taken to the transportation director. I never saw the kid again because he lost his bus riding privileges for the rest of the year.

On day 3, one of the kids started an obscene rap about me. The kids got up and danced in the aisles. I pulled the bus over to the shoulder. I asked them to sit down. They refused.

I took the bus back to the transportation depot.

On day 4 ... what a change ... the kids remained seated. They didn't throw things out the window. They didn't eat on the bus. They made no effort to distract me as the driver. It was great!

They remained well behaved for the rest of the school year.

[Spectre]

I will echo the notion that it is wise to choose our battles, with middle schoolers, but as a science teacher, with lab tables, I insist on enforcing the school ban on gum.

One of my students came in with gum. I asked him to dispose of it. Ten minutes later, he had more. Again I asked him to dispose of it. Before class was over, he had popped another stick in his mouth. At that point, it was no longer just a "gum" problem, but one of utter defiance. My gut told me to just tell him to toss it out again, but that is where I realized this student had had enough opportunities. I filed a discipline referral.

Flexibility is key in middle school, but one has to draw the line somewhere.

By the way, this was only the third referral I have written all year for anything....:cool:

[muinteoir]

At that point, it was no longer just a "gum" problem, but one of utter defiance.


Exactly!

The last decent principal I had used to tell to not write up students for chewing gum, but to write them up for defiance of classroom rules.

Dang, I miss him.

[merrynl]

In general, I don't care if my students are chewing gum in class. However, when it becomes a problem, I make them spit it out. If it turns into a referral, I write them up for not following class rules or for being defiant. THe main reason gum turns into an issue for me is during labs. I tolerate NO gum chewing whatsoever during chemistry labs because it's a safety issue.

[Aziz]

I have to admit I can't relate to the gum being a big deal. I personally chew gum, so why shouldn't students be able to? Often times in the morning, gum helps keep them awake. If they are feeling antsy, instead of tapping their pencil, they can channel their energy into chewing the gum. I was amazed how much a stick of gum can tone down those students who have three or four ticks going on at the same time. For a Chemistry lab or an oral presentation, I can understand why it's unsafe or impractical, but other than that, I don't see the harm. The students know to throw it away. Our school is very good about recycling and throwing away things properly, thanks to our Environmental Club.

Speaking of placing substances in one mouth, I don't have anything against students eating or drinking in the classroom either. They get a mere twenty minutes for lunch, and often times students use their break to do homework or to go to extracurricular meetings. In fact, many teachers occasionally bake brownies or bring in drinks for their class when they've been working extra hard lately. In my experience, it's those small actions that make students feel like part of a community and not like they're on the other side of the teacher-student divide. Students are less inclined to act up when they like their teacher or when they look forward to the class than when they feel like they're fighting a battle (as the title of this thread suggests.)

Just my two cents.

-Aziz

[Chef Dave]

My biggest battle at school this year has been the strict enforcement of the health code.

Culinary arts students must wear aprons, hair nets or hats, and disposable gloves. They must wash their hands before putting on their gloves. They must also wear close toed shoes.

It took me a week just to get some of the students to wear close toed shoes. Students who violated our dress code policy had to spend the period scrubbing pots. Some of the students complained that they didn't have any close toed shoes. (Not true). The girls complained that closed toed shoes were unfashionable and uncomfortable in the late August and September heat of southeastern Arizona. (I compromised by issuing each girl a private locker in the hallway just outside the culinary arts lab).

[MsCoffeeLover]

For those folks that don't mind gum chewing, have y'all ever looked underneath the student's desks? When you see how much gum is there, you may change your mind. Also, sometimes gum and other snacks students may try to eat while you are not looking bring in bugs!!

On a lighter note, one of my students made a goal not to chew gum in class anymore. This child always has gum and has me for homeroom, social studies, and science. After a week, she got a nice sticker and a nice note home. Kids actually really like that stuff. Let's keep our fingers crossed for next week.

[Spectre]

For those folks that don't mind gum chewing, have y'all ever looked underneath the student's desks? .

Exactly.

I have lab tables. The undersides are peppered with wads of gum.

I personally find gum chewing to be distasteful, but that isn't the point. One of my students got a handful of gum one day when they reached underneath one of the lab tables.

I asked her if she understood my objections to gum, now?

[Ms.Champion]

At the beginning of the school year, I wouldn't let them chew gum in class. Then later in the year, I decided that they could chew it in class. Well, we had just got our carpet pulled up and had tile put down on our hall. I started to notice, that my kids don't know what a trash can is when it comes to gum. They would just throw their gum in the floor, like they were raised in a barn. I finally told them that they had lost their gum chewing priviledge. I write them up after the third time and send them out. I just don't understand, why they would want to throw it on the floor like that. It boogles my mind!

[Spectre]

It's all a part of the entitlement thing, ms Champion. I see it too. Too many students think they can do whatever because that is what they do at home and WHO are WE to dare tell them, no?" School is likely the first time some kids ever heard that word.

[Ms.Champion]

I totally agree, Spectre. I am a first year teacher, teaching 6th grade at a inner-city school. I have never seen so many disrespectful students in all of my 24 years of life!!! I tell them that sometimes, too. I use to try to nip everything in the bud at the beginning of the year. Now, I just worry about the big stuff, like, fighting, defiance, disrespect, etc... I was taking the disrespect, but here lately, I will send them out in a heartbeat. I am tired of it!!!

[MsCoffeeLover]

All of my kids that have detention pretty much get a pair of plastic gloves and a scraper to scrape gum off the bottom of the desks. If they don't scrape gum, our wonderful custodian has offered to help with work detail. That combination has helped with the gum and the cleanliness of the room. Once a student has had to serve work detail, some of them tend to help out after that.

Gum is just gross, and I don't like it at all.

[MsCoffeeLover]

It's all a part of the entitlement thing, ms Champion. I see it too. Too many students think they can do whatever because that is what they do at home and WHO are WE to dare tell them, no?" School is likely the first time some kids ever heard that word.

Oh my word! I witnessed this for the first time. had a student that was giving me a time, and she received several detentions. Initially, her mom wanted to take her out of my class due to "conflicts," but that is not an option at our school. We don't let kids switch schedules because they don't like it. In fact, there hasn't been a schedule change all year that I am aware of.

I finally had to write her up because she kept taking off at lunch. Granted, I knew this child was a social butterfly, but I always knew where to find her. One day I looked up and couldn't find her, and I wrote her up that very moment. Mom, of course, was mad. Her child was telling her one thing, and I was telling her something else.

The parent was invited to meet me the next day, and the guidance counselor came as well. Basically, I told the mom it was a safety issue, and mom didn't reallyl have much of a problem with that. However, I could no get over the way this child talked to her mom. It was difficult to watch and keep my mouth closed, but I then understood why she thought she could do whatever she wants. Her mom lets her do whatever she wants. I wouldn't back down, and the student eventually finally told the truth. The student was good and mad and asked if she could leave, and I told her no.

Ever since then, I haven't had too many problems, but the ones I have had her mom has been contacted directly. The mom asks a few questions based on her daughters report of events, I invite the mom to discuss the issue in the morning, and the child now magically tells the truth and all is well.

[Aziz]

MsCoffeeLover,

The underside of our desks are perfectly clean. I often see students throwing away their gum by putting it in the wrapper or spitting it out straight into the trashcan.

We haven't had any problems with bugs as a result of students eating in classrooms. In fact, the only time we had a problem with bugs was when the building was under construction, and there were cockroaches running around everywhere.

I imagine if we were a bigger school, we would find chewing gum under the desks and other messes from food. In our school of 450, however, we don't have any issues with keeping the building clean.

I will be realistic and admit that sometimes we have problems with kids leaving trash behind. Ironically, though, we only find trash in the amphitheater, where about half the students eat lunch, and not in the classrooms or hallways. Maybe we should encourage kids to eat during class or right outside their classrooms so that they don't leave as much trash behind in the amphitheater! ;)

Our school has managed to remain so laid back because problems seldom arise from our being so laid back. When problems do arise, we have a town meeting discussing solutions, and follow through with the plans--an approach that has proven to be very effective.

I don't mean to be countering everyone! I'm just so surprised how differently my school functions from everyone else's on this website. I knew we were unusual, but I didn't realize we were this unusual!

-Aziz

[Chef Dave]

I don't mean to be countering everyone! I'm just so surprised how differently my school functions from everyone else's on this website. I knew we were unusual, but I didn't realize we were this unusual!


Your school sounds a bit like mine. It's also laid back but is more laid back along the lines of "the iron fist in the velvet glove." In other words, we're all quite cordial and laid back as long as students follow our school policies, expectations, and politely worded requests. We become slightly less cordial when students cross the line.

Our building administration has a fairly strict zero tolerance policy regarding disobedience and/or disruptive behavior. We don't have a town meeting to discuss problems or concerns. At the start of the year in-coming Freshman are introduced to our school policy and consequences. This basically constitutes their first and last warning regarding their behavior.

Students who experience difficulty behaving in class are sent to the office. Our administrators talk to the students and if necessary, implement immediate consequences that may include trash pick up duty, in-school detention, Saturday detention, suspension, and/or expulsion.

I have actually had two students permanently withdrawn from my culinary arts class because of their behavior. One student was behaving in a manner that was potentially dangerous to his classmates, jumping on tables and throwing things. He was also caught stealing culinary arts supplies.

Another student was incredibly disruptive. She would roll her eyes when asked to do anything. Her favorite words were, "That's ridiculous" and she prefaced most of her statements to me by saying, "Well here's another thing you just did wrong."

The first student was later expelled for his behavior in another class. The other dropped out and is now working at a minimum wage job for a fast food restaurant.

[busbus]

Aziz and Chef Dave,

I envy both of you! However, I do enjoy the challenges in my urban, highly populated schools. Then, again, because of my position, I'm not confronted with having to deal with the problems.

I will say this, when I was a classroom teacher, the custodial workers always commented on how easy it was to clean my room. Trash on my floor? Gum on my floor or under the desks? Food on my floor? You gotta be kidding! However, there was one thing that I really had to nip in the bud and that was students spitting in trash cans. How nasty! :eek:

Fortunately for me, I had a very supportive administrator who backed me on most things. I was able to be laid back and to have a comfortable, relaxing and laid back classroom.

[Spectre]

I see a couple of key things in all of these posts.

Each of you either belongs to a small, apparently, closely knit school community or you have very supportive admin or you have both.

Gotta say I am somewhat envious.:eek:

[Aziz]

busbus,

I always thought it was a bit gross to directly spit your gum into the trashcan, but at least that's better than leaving it under a desk or who knows where. I put my gum in the wrapper before throwing it away. Sometimes you forget to keep the wrapper, though, so you're stuck being nasty.

At my school, we don't even have after-school detention, or Saturday detention, or in-school suspension. We have out-of-school suspension, a day of reflection (suspension without having it show up on your record), and expulsion. We reserve those punishments for students that decide to sell drugs or endanger the community in some other way.

We send letters home to keep parents updated on their children's grades throughout the school year, so that no report cards come as surprises. For late homework and the like, teachers usually take off points--which is a lot more effective at my school, where students regard their grades as their life--than any detention would.

We do have a strict no-tolerance policy for drugs and cheating. We have a 24/7 rule for drugs where no matter when or where a student is doing drugs, it is treated as if s/he were caught at school during school hours. For cheating, the consequences depend on the degree of the cheating (copying a homework assignment vs. plagiarizing).

-Aziz

[MsCoffeeLover]

A teacher can probably have a laid back classroom for those students who take education very seriously. There are many students that come to school to actually learn, have never offered too many challenging behaviors, and can pace themselves accordingly. If I had a roomful of those kids, my class would be laid back to, but the public school system doesn't do that to you. Sometimes you get kids that have been abused or neglected or have no reason to care or just don't know any better. Just restoring hope and adding a positive touch to a child that has never had it is difficult enough.

I am not trying to be difficult here at all, but it does make a difference if the child had the option to choose your school.

[busbus]

busbus,

I always thought it was a bit gross to directly spit your gum into the trashcan, but at least that's better than leaving it under a desk or who knows where. I put my gum in the wrapper before throwing it away. Sometimes you forget to keep the wrapper, though, so you're stuck being nasty.

-Aziz

Good Morning Aziz,

I guess that I did not make myself clear on the spitting. Spitting gum into the trash, I can go along with even though I tell the students to use some scrap paper or a tissue in which to wrap the gum. What I'm talking about is ACTUAL SPIT! :eek: Not only is it gross, it's unsanitary! There are enough germs in schools (any public place); more need not be added.

I have a friend who always taught at the high school level. Anyway, she took a leave of absence for study. When she returned, she had to take an assignment in a middle school - a really rough school. When she told me about how the students would spit into the trash can, I did not believe her until I witnessed it myself years later. What a shock! I could not believe what I was seeing! :confused:

busbus

[Aziz]

Good morning, busbus!

Yes, that is disgusting.

-Aziz

[Ms.Champion]

My kids spit in the trash can, too!!! It is totally disguisting!!! I tell them to at least spit in a paper towel or something and then put it in the trash can. Many times they want to go to the bathroom, but then it becomes a 20 minute trip, b/c they chat to other students in the hallway (Seeing that the chorus room is right next to my room). It drives me insane, so I just push the call button and let them know that I have a student skipping my class.

[Chef Dave]

To Busbus and Spectre,

Yes - I suspect the common factor is that Aziz and I both work at small schools. I don't know about Aziz but I also live in a small rural community. Our census population is just over 4300 people and our high school enrollment is about 400.

One of the advantages to working in a small rural community is that everyone knows everyone. School environments are smaller and more intimate.

It probably helps that 50-60% of our kids are Mormon. The Mormon have strong family values and a reputation for being quite polite. Our school even has an attached Mormon seminary. I think the seminary was built with private funds and Mormon students take classes on an elective basis.

I suspect that the presence of so many Mormons has helped to infuse the student body with better manners if for no other reason than peer pressure and student role modeling. This is not to say that non-Mormons cannot be well behaved ... but having a significant part of the student body come from families that promote positive family values really helps with the overall school climate.

[Aziz]

Chef Dave,

I'm in the city. My school is not religious-affiliated but the majority of the student body is Jewish Reform and Conservative. I think the laid back atmosphere has to do with the size (450 kids) because I've visited some other public schools in the area that are predominantly Jewish and are also very far from laid back.

Ms.Champion,

You have a button you can push when your students are skipping class? Wow, never heard of that one before! How does that work, exactly?

-Aziz

[Ms.Champion]

Aziz, I'm sorry. I should have clarified. It is just the call button to the office. If I have a student skipping, I just let them know and the administrators will hunt the student down and give them detention.

[Aziz]

Wow, definitely a different way of running things compared to my school!

A former colleague of mine used to hunt down students that skipped classes, but then those students would come to me, begging me to confirm to her that they hadn't skipped my class. I guess she was a bit in overdrive. Now that she's gone, teachers keep track of their own students and generally penalize students by docking a few points from their participation grade.

-Aziz

[busbus]

Aziz, I'm sorry. I should have clarified. It is just the call button to the office. If I have a student skipping, I just let them know and the administrators will hunt the student down and give them detention.

Ms.Champion, I was just about to ask you about the "call button," thanks for clarifying.

We do the same thing here, call the office, when students are absent from class too long. If not to have the student hunted down and given a detention, it's a good idea to call just to protect yourself in the event that something happens to the student while he/she is out of your classroom.

[Aziz]

We have an open campus policy. Students are allowed to leave campus if they don't have class. (Everyone is required at least one free period in addition to lunch break.) They have IDs so that if the local police try to arrest them, they can just see that they go to my school and are therefore allowed to be off campus during school hours. That's why it's pretty much down to us teachers to tell if our own students are cutting class, because no one else knows the students' schedule well enough to know if they have a free period or if they're cutting class.

-Aziz

[busbus]

I see a couple of key things in all of these posts.

Each of you either belongs to a small, apparently, closely knit school community or you have very supportive admin or you have both.

Gotta say I am somewhat envious.:eek:

Spectre,

For all of my teaching career, I have worked in the same inner-city, highly populated school district. I must admit that I have been very fortunate to have worked under supportive and exemplar administrators.

I've never had to deal with what you have been going through at your school. I guess that I would have been like you are ... waiting to say, "Bye, bye!" before I was charged with insubordination. My personality would not allow me to accept some of the things that you posted.

Unfortunately, I can't say that I envy you! :rolleyes:

[Spectre]

Spectre,

For all of my teaching career, I have worked in the same inner-city, highly populated school district. I must admit that I have been very fortunate to have worked under supportive and exemplar administrators.

I've never had to deal with what you have been going through at your school. I guess that I would have been like you are ... waiting to say, "Bye, bye!" before I was charged with insubordination. My personality would not allow me to accept some of the things that you posted.

Unfortunately, I can't say that I envy you! :rolleyes:

Believe this or no, I have seen yet worse. Is that scarey or what?????!!!