The PC things is going to be the end of me....

[Spectre]

I'm usually a very lay back person, rarely raise my voice above a normal tone unless I have to be heard over the din and am much more understanding of some adolescent behavior than are many.

That has served me well in teaching middle school. Confrontation with early adolescents usually doesn't benefit anyone. :D

But even I have limits, and those limits were exceeded today, on our first day back from vacation. :(

I change seating arrangements and seating assignments about every 6 weeks and it was time to do that today. I had placed student names on index cards and taped them to tables and was allowing the students to enter, 5 at a time, to find their assigned place. I had done this for two classes already and the third one had arrived. Not a problem in sight. Then as the first few of my third class entered, I put out a hand to indicate to the sixth student in line that she should stop, putting my hand out in front of her thick binder, she held in front of her. She recoiled, shouting "Don't touch me!" I NEVER have touched this student and did not even come close to doing it this time. You can bet the farm I NEVER will, either. I was shcoked by the outburst and several students looked at me oddly.

***an aside to explain my own mindset here - this year, our school system has had THREE instances where teachers (curiously, ALL of them science teachers and all of them men) have been unjustly accused of impropriety. All 3 were exonerated by an investigation, but you can bet that here in the South, in the bible belt, some are still looking sidewise at them ***

I promptly summoned a female administrator because I wanted this outburst and this situation dealt with right then and there. To her credit, she came down promptly. I explained the situation and, at first, she looked at me with a blank "well, what do you want ME to do about it? expression, until I explained, in detail, my concerns. She then took the girl out into the hallway and had a lengthy word with her. Ten minutes later, the girl was back in class, whistling and singing to herself. When I stopped what I was doing and fixed her with a baleful stare, she just kept right on as though it was no big deal. The kids finally got irritated with her and told her to stop. It was plain that the "discussion" in the hallway with the assistant administrator, not only did little good, but seemed to pep the girl up and give her a sense of empowerment. For those who have read my earlier posts, this is one of the APs that tends to enable our girls, particularly our minority girls. Seems it had happened again. The significance of it became clear later on, when, on the way to lunch, one of the other minority girls, a good friend of the first one, began walking behind me, mocking the way I walked. Right now I am having problems with both achilles tendons (they hurt!) and have two bad knees. This does not make walking easy for me. My gait looks a little odd, I know. It's not something I can help right now. I turned to the girl and said to her "I'm glad you aren't walking that way because you hurt like I do." She and some of her friends just laughed. No sense in referring the matter to the office. The first incident showed me the likely result. :mad:

End of Part 1 (to be continued)

[Bananas]

Oh, Spectre, I sure wish some other admin had come to handle things. This might have come out differently.

They thing they are so cool when they mock and ridicule their teachers in front of their peers. She just might look back on this time many years from now when she is in worse shape than you are.

Will look for the next installment from you.

[Chef Dave]

. It was plain that the "discussion" in the hallway with the assistant administrator, not only did little good, but seemed to pep the girl up and give her a sense of empowerment.

Is this the same administrator who made the other classroom teacher cry after suggesting that she was somehow at fault for the child's repeated disruptive outburst?

Hang in there.

This too will pass ... especially if you make good on your plan to leave the district at year's end.

In the meanwhile, did you talk to the administrator to see what she said?

[Spectre]

Is this the same administrator who made the other classroom teacher cry after suggesting that she was somehow at fault for the child's repeated disruptive outburst?

Hang in there.

This too will pass ... especially if you make good on your plan to leave the district at year's end.

In the meanwhile, did you talk to the administrator to see what she said?

Oh, there is NO question as to what my plan is, Chef Dave. And yes, this is the same one who was in on the other incident.

I did not ask the administrator what she said...yet. That part is in Part 2, which is coming up next.

[Spectre]

I notice I haven't gotten much response to this thread. I guess a good part of the world is as PC as my school. That is their right and their choice. Only, I stand by what I said about political correctness being one of the things that will be the undoing of our nation.

This afternoon, I went down to see the guidance counselor, the one who was so enabling in the last incident I mentioned, the one who is so infamous for enabling our minority females. She seems to have good rapport with this particular segment of our populace. It's easy to understand how and why. :confused:

I related the incidents from that morning. Her response?

" Well, Mr ______, they will outgrow it."

Those were her exact words.

And how, I asked, does that help the situation NOW? She admitted that it did not, that we would all just have to "suffer" together.

I assured her that I was nearly 60 years old, had done enough suffering, and had no intention of doing anymore needlessly. If any "suffering" was going to take place, it will be the perpetrators of this and NOT me.

"Well, do we need to have a meeting?"

"What for?"

"To see where we are with this." (not her exact words, but close enough)

"I know RIGHT where we are with this," I told her, "and I am through taking mistreatment from them."
:mad:

"I'll talk to them," she assured me.

"I am certain you will," I replied, and wondered, in my thoughts, about what good that could possibly do.

I politely thanked the counselor for her time, then left. Neither one of us showed any rancor or raised our voices, but we could not be farther apart on an issue if we tried to be deliberately.

Bananas, the reason I summoned the AP that I did is that I am purposefully giving all concerned enough rope to hang themselves. They have performed flawlessly. I am documenting everything. When I am through, I am asking for a meeting with the big man. With the evidence that I will collect, I am going to show him a picture of exactly what is going on in this school. Call me Spartacus if you like.

I am merely thankful that, today, the guidance counselor didn't use the line she is so famed for...."you just don't understand the culture."
No, I guess I don't. But what I do understand, I think, is that she and the AP cannot see past the shade of the color of the skin involved here and realize that students, regardless of ethnicity and/or gender, need to be accountable for their actions. To do less is to invest in another form of racism. Lower expectations are exactly that. How sad and ironic that it is people of their own race that are doing this to them.:mad:

[Chef Dave]

"you just don't understand the culture."


This is the rallying cry of the incompetent and the lazy.

My father and grandfather were immigrants to this country after the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 was finally repealed in 1943.

Unlike other Chinese, my grandfather did not find a home in Chinatown. He got an apartment in Brooklyn.

My father was the only Asian at his school.

In 1943, there were no ESL programs. My father was ten years old. He spoke no English and was placed in a kindergarten class. Can you imagine the ridicule he received from other children at his elementary school?

The children laughed at his accent and his clothing. If he was lucky, he outran the bullies who lurked for him after school. If he wasn't lucky, he got pummeled by kids who called him a "dirty Jap" even though my family was not Japanese.

My father did not complain about this abuse. My grandfather did not rant at my father's teachers and tell them that they did not "understand" our culture.

My father was motivated to learn English, to get out of kindergarten, and to quickly progress through the grades until he was in his age appropriate grade level.

He saw public education as an opportunity to improve his life far beyond anything we had in the old mother country. He did this by embracing the mainstream culture which was white and middle class.

He learned to speak English without a foreign accent. He learned to eat American food which was quite different from the food of his early childhood. He attended a Protestant church instead of going to a Buddhist temple.

In time he became a doctor and used his income to help bootstrap the family out of poverty.

He did not use his culture, his immigrant status, or the fact that his classmates were physically and emotionally abusive to him as an excuse to fail.

He was not a whiner. He was not lazy. He did not quit.

Back in my father's day, students addressed their teachers as "Sir" or "Ma'am." Talking in the classroom was a strict no-no. Students who did not behave were paddled by their teachers and sent home with a note. Back in the 40's it was not uncommon for parents to respond to such a note with further punishment at home. Many parents also sent gifts of apples, chicken, or some other food to the teacher by way of apology.

Fast forward now to the late 20th and early 21st centuries ... and I am appalled to the extent that PC liberals will go to excuse student behavior.

Teachers no longer paddle their students but if we reprimand them, we're considered brutal and hateful. Some parents will even come to school and scream abuse at their child's teacher.

Students are no longer expected to learn the mainstream culture. Efforts to teach "standard English" are sometimes met with resistance because it is said that we don't understand the language of the ghetto or the barrio or wherever it is that these students live.

Since we are not poor, it is said that we cannot understand poverty.

Since most teachers are not minorities, white teachers are told that they cannot understand the culture.

How the times have changed ...

[sweetsass]

Spectre, I haven't read your previous posts complaining of the same things, so I'll just address the current post.

How is the failure of one of your administrators to support you a measure of "politcal correctness"? Your implication, by making this connection, is that this type of thing is commonplace and/or accepted. I assure you, that is not the case. At my school, no administrator (or teacher) would ever take the side of a child over a teacher. My teacher friends at other schools have never reported anything like this to me.

The problem seems to be your administration, not the concept of political correctness.

[sweetsass]

I am merely thankful that, today, the guidance counselor didn't use the line she is so famed for...."you just don't understand the culture."
No, I guess I don't. But what I do understand, I think, is that she and the AP cannot see past the shade of the color of the skin involved here and realize that students, regardless of ethnicity and/or gender, need to be accountable for their actions. To do less is to invest in another form of racism. Lower expectations are exactly that. How sad and ironic that it is people of their own race that are doing this to them.:mad:

There is a big difference between saying you don't understand the culture and allowing kids to get away with things because of that. It sounds like you feel that the AP has taken on the opinion of the guidance couselor and uses it to let kids get away with things.

That will be extremely difficult to prove, no matter how much documentation.

[sweetsass]

This is the rallying cry of the incompetent and the lazy.

My father and grandfather were immigrants to this country after the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 was finally repealed in 1943.

Unlike other Chinese, my grandfather did not find a home in Chinatown. He got an apartment in Brooklyn.

My father was the only Asian at his school.

In 1943, there were no ESL programs. My father was ten years old. He spoke no English and was placed in a kindergarten class. Can you imagine the ridicule he received from other children at his elementary school?

The children laughed at his accent and his clothing. If he was lucky, he outran the bullies who lurked for him after school. If he wasn't lucky, he got pummeled by kids who called him a "dirty Jap" even though my family was not Japanese.

My father did not complain about this abuse. My grandfather did not rant at my father's teachers and tell them that they did not "understand" our culture.

My father was motivated to learn English, to get out of kindergarten, and to quickly progress through the grades until he was in his age appropriate grade level.

He saw public education as an opportunity to improve his life far beyond anything we had in the old mother country. He did this by embracing the mainstream culture which was white and middle class.

He learned to speak English without a foreign accent. He learned to eat American food which was quite different from the food of his early childhood. He attended a Protestant church instead of going to a Buddhist temple.

In time he became a doctor and used his income to help bootstrap the family out of poverty.

He did not use his culture, his immigrant status, or the fact that his classmates were physically and emotionally abusive to him as an excuse to fail.

He was not a whiner. He was not lazy. He did not quit.

Back in my father's day, students addressed their teachers as "Sir" or "Ma'am." Talking in the classroom was a strict no-no. Students who did not behave were paddled by their teachers and sent home with a note. Back in the 40's it was not uncommon for parents to respond to such a note with further punishment at home. Many parents also sent gifts of apples, chicken, or some other food to the teacher by way of apology.

Fast forward now to the late 20th and early 21st centuries ... and I am appalled to the extent that PC liberals will go to excuse student behavior.

Teachers no longer paddle their students but if we reprimand them, we're considered brutal and hateful. Some parents will even come to school and scream abuse at their child's teacher.

Students are no longer expected to learn the mainstream culture. Efforts to teach "standard English" are sometimes met with resistance because it is said that we don't understand the language of the ghetto or the barrio or wherever it is that these students live.

Since we are not poor, it is said that we cannot understand poverty.

Since most teachers are not minorities, white teachers are told that they cannot understand the culture.

How the times have changed ...

I get your point, and fundamentally, I agree with it. But you couldn't have chosen a more offensive way to make that point than you did with this post.

Of course your dad assimilated into the white culture. He was the only Japanese person at his school. He didn't have a choice.

Naturally, he got an education and found a great career, because that's what people did in those days.

My school is full of "liberals," including myself, and I and them are not in a habit of excusing student misbehavior. Liberal does not necessarily equal tolerance for bad behavior, and I caution you in making such sweeping generalizations and assumptions. You can't put people into a tidy little box like that.

I don't know what it's like where you are, but where I am, teachers are not taken to task for reprimanding students. Teachers are expected to maintain control of a classroom, which sometimes includes reprimanding students. Parents coming to school to take issue with a teacher who has reprimanded his or her child is a very rare occurance here.

It is correct that if you haven't experienced poverty, you won't be able to completely relate to it.

Where in god's name did you figure that most teachers aren't minorities???? Where I am, they certainly are!

But white people will never truly understand what it is like to be black, or any other minority.

Again, make sure you're not trying to speak for all people. You sure don't speak for me, nor do you speak to the situation where I teach.

[Chef Dave]

Where in god's name did you figure that most teachers aren't minorities???? Where I am, they certainly are!

Oh I see ...

So you're making a generalization about teacher ethnicity across the entire length and breadth of the United States based solely upon your local experience?

Well, stop the presses!

I suppose someone should tell the National Association of State Boards of Education, the Federal Department of Education, the Educational Testing Service, the U.S. Census Bureau, and the National Education Association that their statistics are wrong?

May I respectfully suggest that before you start jumping all over people, that you first verify your facts?

The National Association of State Boards of Education (1998) characterized the typical graduate of a teacher education program as "white, female, 21 years old, speaks only English, from a small town and wanting to teach in the same" (p. 14 of their report).

ETS AND the NEA both report that 85% of all teachers are white and female.

If you don't believe me, check the figures yourself.

Here is a basic abstract:
http://www.nea.org/edstats/07todaysteachers.html

For more detailed information, kindly examine reference table 239 of Section 4, Education, 2006 Statistical Abstract of the United States, U.S. Census Bureau, CB06-FF.11-2.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/07statab/educ.pdf




Of course your dad assimilated into the white culture. He was the only Japanese person at his school. He didn't have a choice.

For your information, I AM NOT JAPANESE.

I am ethnic Chinese.

My father immigrated to this country in 1943 during WWII when the United States was at war with Germany, Italy, and Japan. White students took one look at my father and assumed he was Japanese. Unable to speak English, my father did not understand why they did this and could not explain that he was not Japanese. A teacher finally ended the beatings by pinning a sign on him that read, "I am Chinese."



I get your point, and fundamentally, I agree with it. But you couldn't have chosen a more offensive way to make that point than you did with this post.

Like it or not, this country was founded by Anglo-Saxons. Although the national demographics are changing and Hispanics are projected to become the dominant ethnic-cultural population within a generation, the current mainstream population is white. The average mainstream income is middle class.

If you want to succeed in the mainstream culture, which again is white and middle class, you have to adopt mainstream cultural values.

Chinese, Spanish, and Ebonics, are not spoken in the typical boardroom or corporate office.

White collar corporate employees do not wear Mandarin jackets or Latin Guayaberas. They wear suits made by Brooks Brothers, Prada, Yves Saint-Laurent, or Savile Row.

The key to success in the mainstream culture is assimilation.

This does not mean that any of us have to be ashamed of our ethnicity. I am most certainly NOT ashamed of being ethnic Chinese. My family can even trace its genealogy back 1100 years to the founding of Fou Shek (Floating Stone), our ancestral village.

What I am saying is that ethnicity should not be used to excuse poor academic performance or disruptive behavior in the classroom.

I also regard the entire concept of political correctness as being liberal bunk and communal tyranny. The tyranny in question is the undermining of freedom of choice and freedom of speech by suggesting that certain words, phrases, or thoughts might hurt someone's feelings.

The term "political correctness" is derived from Marxist-Leninist vocabulary, and was originally used as a term to describe the appropriate "party line." Political correctness in its extreme form, was used by the Soviet Union as a means of civil control. Criticism of the party, public contradictions of the "official truth," and failure to voice the party line could and did result in denouncements, imprisonment, torture, and even death.

In 1991, President George H. W. Bush spoke out in support of our constitutional right for free speech by speaking against a "movement" that would "declare certain topics off-limits, certain expressions off-limits, even certain gestures off-limits.

In his book, "The Abolition of Britain," Peter Hitchens wrote, "What Americans describe with the casual phrase .... political correctness is the most intolerant system of thought to dominate the British Isles since the Reformation".

Pat Buchanan claims that the goal of political correctness is to undermine Western values by influencing popular culture through Cultural Marxism.

If I have offended you, that's unfortunate. I make no apologies for plain speaking.

If you persist in screaming at me, I will ignore you. It is my feeling that screaming is the first and last recourse of people who are unable or unwilling to enter a reasoned discussion.

If you would like to discuss the merits of political correctness or anything else that strikes your interest, I will be happy to enter a discussion as time, convenience, interest, and mutual civility permit.

[Spectre]

Oh I see ...


What I am saying is that ethnicity should not be used to excuse poor academic performance or disruptive behavior in the classroom.




Amen! Amen! This is EXACTLY what I am saying, this IS what both our AP and our guidance counselor are promoting and encouraging. NO one is served with this approach. No one.
More later....;)

Well said, Chef Dave!

[Bananas]

Spectre,

Good luck and good job in documentation. You seem to be speaking of what Bill Cosby advocates. While it is admirable to build rapport will all segments of the population, enabling is counterproductive to a healthy relationship. That is more of trying to be their friend than an adult. That does NOT speak of disciplining and classroom management.

[sweetsass]

Dave,

Nowhere in my post did I use exclamation points, so I don't know where you get the idea I'm "screaming" at you. I think you're just used to everyone on this board blindly agreeing with you, so someone like myself comes along and disagrees with everything you said, and you again try to put that person in a box.

That's fine if you don't want to talk to me. You're obviously a Republican (and a Pat Buchanan lover, at that), so I don't want to talk to you, either.

You're also giving Spectre the validation he needs to carry on his pity party, so I'll leave you two alone in your male, Anglo Saxon righteousness.

S

[Spectre]

Dave,

You're also giving Spectre the validation he needs to carry on his pity party, so I'll leave you two alone in your male, Anglo Saxon righteousness.

S

Okay, enough. this has gotten ugly and out of hand. Now we're calling names and getting personal.

I will have no more to do with it.

I came here just to let off some steam. I am truly frustrated over this situation, as are many at my school. I did not seek pity, merely understanding.

I regret any trouble I created.

[Spectre]

Spectre,

Good luck and good job in documentation. You seem to be speaking of what Bill Cosby advocates. While it is admirable to build rapport will all segments of the population, enabling is counterproductive to a healthy relationship. That is more of trying to be their friend than an adult. That does NOT speak of disciplining and classroom management.

Precisely, Bananas.

I have always liked Bill Cosby. Always thought he had a lot of good sense. Also like Will Smith - he did independence day and most recently, I am legend. There is a columist, Leonard Pitts, that I admire as well. Don't always agree with him, but he strikes me as sensible.

As I am sure you realize, by now, with middle schoolers, it is all about expectations. At their age, I would have tried to slide too. It's the nature of the beast.

Doubtless there are some on this site who think me a hideous bigot and while that is so far off the mark, it's laughable, they can believe what they wish.

the cherokee here in north carolina have a saying:

"Don't judge someone until you have walked a mile in their mocassins."

As a favorite of mine on another site has said, the first casualty of political correctness is the truth. I concur with that and, as I have said before, fear that PC will be a factor in the demise of our culture and our society.

Until we truly raise the bar on academics and on personal accountability, rather than just talking about it and making false claims, we are setting ourselves up for a mighty fall.

[Chef Dave]

And David is (or was) a registered republican, but if you think he is in the buchanan camp or anywhere near it, then you are clearly the one in need of "pity." Your perspective is a little skewed, not to mention way off base.

Spectre is correct. I am a registered Republican but I have never voted a straight Republican ticket. I am not a Buchanan supporter. He is much too conservative for my tastes. I am also not a Bush supporter. I did not vote for George Bush Jr. in either of the last two presidential elections.

This does not mean that I assume that everything Pat Buchanan says is wrong. I support his viewpoint regarding PC liberalism. I believe that the entire concept of political correctness is a threat to our First Amendment right to free speech. By telling us what to think and how to express ourselves, PC supporters are eroding the fabric of our democracy.

One of the problems I have with PC supporters is the attitude that SweetAss has clearly shared in this thread.

At best, anyone who doesn't agree with the PC rhetoric is deemed "offensive." At worst, a PC supporter would probably say that I'm a racist which is pretty funny when you consider the fact that ethnic Chinese are a true minority in this country as we comprise less than 1% of the entire population.

Instead of discussing the issues in a calm and rational manner, SweetAss says things like, "Where in god's name did you figure that most teachers aren't minorities????"

She claims that she didn't yell because she didn't use exclamation marks - but the tone of her wording came over loud and clear.

She accuses me of being a Buchanan lover.

She accuses me of wanting to put her in a box.

Actually ... putting her a box isn't a half bad idea. If I could UPS her to another forum, I'd gladly do that if it meant that I wouldn't have to listen to any more of her inane PC babble. :)

Oh ... and did I hear a "Gee David, you were actually right about the entire teacher ethnicity thing and I apologize for my unnecessarily belligerent tone?"

If I am as she says, used to being correct, it may be because I actually know what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

As far as Spectre goes, the poor man is in a terrible bind. If you've followed any of his threads, you will have noted that he and some of his fellow teachers are between a rock and a hard place.

Students at his school are disruptive. Parents and administrators are for reasons unknown, empowering these children to misbehave. Teachers who complain are told that they don't understand the culture. They don't understand poverty.

I don't see what any of this has to do with learning.

I said it before and I'll say it again.

People who use ethnicity, culture, or poverty as an excuse for poor academic performance and unacceptable classroom behavior are being lazy. They are not using education as an opportunity to better themselves.

Consider the example of Lawrence Douglas Wilder. He grew up in the old segregated south. He rose from waiting tables at all white country clubs to become a powerful Virginia state legislator who broke the color line by winning statewide elections as lieutenant governor in 1985. He later became Virginia's first black governor.

Or what about Mae Jemison, the first African-American woman to fly in space? She has a B.S. in engineering from Standford and a medical degree from Cornell. In addition to speaking English, she is fluent in Russian, Japanese, and Swahili.

The American dream is alive and well for those people who take the opportunities that are given to them. Public education is one such opportunity.

[Spectre]

Our society is filled with examples of people who raised themselves up, despite dire circumstances. Enough said.

[sweetsass]

Spectre is correct. I am a registered Republican but I have never voted a straight Republican ticket. I am not a Buchanan supporter. He is much too conservative for my tastes. I am also not a Bush supporter. I did not vote for George Bush Jr. in either of the last two presidential elections.

This does not mean that I assume that everything Pat Buchanan says is wrong. I support his viewpoint regarding PC liberalism. I believe that the entire concept of political correctness is a threat to our First Amendment right to free speech. By telling us what to think and how to express ourselves, PC supporters are eroding the fabric of our democracy.

One of the problems I have with PC supporters is the attitude that SweetAss has clearly shared in this thread.

At best, anyone who doesn't agree with the PC rhetoric is deemed "offensive." At worst, a PC supporter would probably say that I'm a racist which is pretty funny when you consider the fact that ethnic Chinese are a true minority in this country as we comprise less than 1% of the entire population.

Instead of discussing the issues in a calm and rational manner, SweetAss says things like, "Where in god's name did you figure that most teachers aren't minorities????"

She claims that she didn't yell because she didn't use exclamation marks - but the tone of her wording came over loud and clear.

She accuses me of being a Buchanan lover.

She accuses me of wanting to put her in a box.

Actually ... putting her a box isn't a half bad idea. If I could UPS her to another forum, I'd gladly do that if it meant that I wouldn't have to listen to any more of her inane PC babble. :)

Oh ... and did I hear a "Gee David, you were actually right about the entire teacher ethnicity thing and I apologize for my unnecessarily belligerent tone?"

If I am as she says, used to being correct, it may be because I actually know what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

As far as Spectre goes, the poor man is in a terrible bind. If you've followed any of his threads, you will have noted that he and some of his fellow teachers are between a rock and a hard place.

Students at his school are disruptive. Parents and administrators are for reasons unknown, empowering these children to misbehave. Teachers who complain are told that they don't understand the culture. They don't understand poverty.

I don't see what any of this has to do with learning.

I said it before and I'll say it again.

People who use ethnicity, culture, or poverty as an excuse for poor academic performance and unacceptable classroom behavior are being lazy. They are not using education as an opportunity to better themselves.

Consider the example of Lawrence Douglas Wilder. He grew up in the old segregated south. He rose from waiting tables at all white country clubs to become a powerful Virginia state legislator who broke the color line by winning statewide elections as lieutenant governor in 1985. He later became Virginia's first black governor.

Or what about Mae Jemison, the first African-American woman to fly in space? She has a B.S. in engineering from Standford and a medical degree from Cornell. In addition to speaking English, she is fluent in Russian, Japanese, and Swahili.

The American dream is alive and well for those people who take the opportunities that are given to them. Public education is one such opportunity.

You signed up on this board less than two months ago, and have almost 700 posts. It's obvious why from the length of this post. And you want to get rid of me? I've been a member here for two years, and don't feel the need to inject my opinion into everything.

The most telling thing about you though, Dave, is the way you purposefully messed up my name to call me "SweetAss." How old are you? 5? And why be such a sexist?

Indeed, it is you who owes me an apology for that.

[Chef Dave]

I've been a member here for two years, and don't feel the need to inject my opinion into everything.


That is certainly one possible interpretation. It could also be that with all of my life experiences as an international educator, public school teacher with inner-city, suburban, and rural experience, and chef instructor, that I may actually have useful advice to share.

Of course, you have to be willing to listen before you can actually hear. :)

If you choose not to listen or if you childishly decide to take offense where no offense was intended, that is unfortunate.

This is also a problem with PC liberals. PC supporters seem to go out of their way to look for things that offend them. I guarantee you that if you try hard enough, you can and will be offended by nearly everything.

"Let's not put up a nativity scene in front of city hall. Atheists and non-Christians might be offended."

"Let's change the school mascot from the Redskins to something else or Native Americans might get upset."

"Leave the fur coat in the closet. We wouldn't want to annoy the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals."

Does any of this sound familiar?

I'd like to tell you to "get a life" but instead I will quote Proverbs 14:20: "He who is slow to anger has great understanding, But he who is quick-tempered exalts folly."

Peace be unto you.

[busbus]

Dear Spectre,

This is the first time that I have been on this thread. It has been quite interesting to say the least. From my vantage point, it appears that your initial thread lead to a complete 360 degree turn away from the issue.

I tend to agree with what most folks did say, ethnicity should not be used to excuse poor academic performance or disruptive behavior in the classroom, and I would add that it should not be used to give persons the license to disrespect and have fun at the expense of another!

I wish you the best!

[ginger11]

that really sucks.

[Spectre]

Dear Spectre,


I tend to agree with what most folks did say, ethnicity should not be used to excuse poor academic performance or disruptive behavior in the classroom, and I would add that it should not be used to give persons the license to disrespect and have fun at the expense of another!

I wish you the best!

And this is all I have been trying to say.:) thanks!

[sweetsass]

That is certainly one possible interpretation. It could also be that with all of my life experiences as an international educator, public school teacher with inner-city, suburban, and rural experience, and chef instructor, that I may actually have useful advice to share.

Of course, you have to be willing to listen before you can actually hear. :)

If you choose not to listen or if you childishly decide to take offense where no offense was intended, that is unfortunate.

This is also a problem with PC liberals. PC supporters seem to go out of their way to look for things that offend them. I guarantee you that if you try hard enough, you can and will be offended by nearly everything.

"Let's not put up a nativity scene in front of city hall. Atheists and non-Christians might be offended."

"Let's change the school mascot from the Redskins to something else or Native Americans might get upset."

"Leave the fur coat in the closet. We wouldn't want to annoy the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals."

Does any of this sound familiar?

I'd like to tell you to "get a life" but instead I will quote Proverbs 14:20: "He who is slow to anger has great understanding, But he who is quick-tempered exalts folly."

Peace be unto you.

The condescending act doesn't work with me, sweetheart. Go try it on someone else.

[Chef Dave]

The condescending act doesn't work with me, sweetheart. Go try it on someone else.

Cute.

I have yet to hear a single explanation about:

1) What I actually said to ruffle your feathers.
2) Why political correctness is so morally correct.
3) Why ethnicity, culture, and poverty can or cannot be used as an excuse for poor academic performance and/or disruptive behavior.

All you have done so far is to make snide comments, call me names, and assign labels - which seems to be par the course for a PC liberal.

As far as I'm concerned, your behavior simply validates my theory that PC advocates are brainless ninnies. To my way of thinking, name calling is the first and last resort of the intellectually challenged.

No matter.

I'm placing you on my ignore list. With one click of my mouse, you no longer exist.

You may call me a sexist. You may tell me I'm offensive. You may even label me as a (gasp) Buchanan supporter. Say what you will. Talk to the hand.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9746/yoga4lr.jpg

[Addict]

Ok, Ok, Ok. I hadn't read this thread until just now - receiving emails from several parties involved. For some reason I assumed it was a Personal Computing problem thread. My fault :confused:

This is a great subject and really made me think about the different viewpoints on the issue. I think it is great that we can use a forum like this to express our thoughts - especially on subjects that can be 'touchy'. I think it is important to be able to express your views.

Unfortunately, sometimes the discussion can get a bit out of control, and it is better to put a lock on the conversation.

Sorry all, but I am closing this thread :(