Stressing...

[kyfriedchick1]

Ok all... I have a problem. I am a 34 year old student getting ready to enter the teaching program next August. I'm finishing up my basics this semester and in the spring.

Now... here is my problem. I have ALWAYS known that the whole purpose in my life was to teach. There has never been a question in the goals I have had for my life. My problem is I can't decide WHAT I want to teach. A few years ago, I had decided to teach high school English.. I love literature and I love teenagers. But then when I decided to go back to school & entered the teacher prep program, I decided to teach elementary school because I taught elementary school kids at church and loved it. Now, after doing observation this semester, I'm stuck yet again. High school or elementary? Is middle school a possibility too? Help!!! This is really a dilemma for me. How do you decide?

[Boxcar]

I know how hard it can be to choose!

Here is what I suggest.

Volunteer in as many differnet settings as possible to get a feel for what you like and don't like about each group.

Read through these and other forums to get an idea of what to expect in each age group.

Interview teachers in your area. Ask them to be dead honest with you about the good and the bad.

[kyfriedchick1]

I didn't think it would honestly be that hard to choose but it is my major cause of stress right now. My classes this semester are not hard at all only time consuming so I have only had my decision to stress over. (That and my daughter's stay in the hospital!)

Next semester, I have 48 hours of observation to do and I am not quite sure of the grade levels -- well, 16 hours is in my Elementary/Middle School Literature class so that observation is pretty much obvious. The other 32 hours I think will be split 8 in Primary, 8 Intermediate, 8 Middle and 8 in High school. So I will be spending 24 hours in an elementary school setting, 16 in Middle and 8 in high school.

I had actually not thought about talking to teachers in each grade level to see what they could tell me. That may be something that I do.

[mopar]

What you need to ask yourself is if you could teach the elementary aged students all day for an entire year. It is quite a challenge, especially because they have booboos and need lots of encouragement and extra time. You will need to help organize them and really manage over them. If you can handle these elementary might be for you.
However, at the middle level, you can give the students more responsibility and place more on them but not too much. You are still teaching these skills and have hormones to deal with also.
High school has even more on the students but then comes the attitudes and apathy.
So choose wisely but if you don't like what you do you can always switch. Definitely take time in your observations to see what you like and don't like. If you love English, teach English. If you love all the subjects, go elementary.

Sorry to hear about your daughter. She will be in my thoughts and prayers. Good luck and don't stress too much.

[Chef Dave]

Now, after doing observation this semester, I'm stuck yet again. High school or elementary? Is middle school a possibility too? Help!!! This is really a dilemma for me. How do you decide?

The best thing to do is to contact your local school district. Explain your situation and see if you can make arrangements to visit a variety of schools.

Regardless of what you teach, there will be advantages and disadvantages. Elementary kids are fun. I was an elementary teacher for 17 years ... but high school kids are capable of more in-depth learning. (I am currently a high school teacher).

Most people who become teachers have a "niche" that they're comfortable with. Although I was certified to teach grades 1-6, I spent most of my elementary teaching career with the 3rd and 4th grades.

I found that I liked this age group. They were just old enough not be "clingy" and they were young enough to still care about how I regarded them.

If you are having problems deciding what age level to teach, you might want to think about your employability.

How many jobs are there for high school English teachers? Would you be wanting to stay in your immediate area or would you be wiling to relocate to another part of the state or even another part of the country?

Are you male or female?

As a male, I had a tremendous advantage as an applicant for elementary teaching jobs because the field was (and still is) largely dominated by women.

Most male elementary teachers teach intermediate or upper elementary grades. You rarely find them teaching kindergarten or grades 1 or 2.

As a male elementary teacher, I was often the only man on campus other than the building administrator and school custodian.

I am sorry to say that on at least two different occasions, my gender played a determining role in my employability. Building administrators WANTED a male teacher if for no other reason than the fact that most kids have no male teachers until they enter the 3rd, 4th, or 5th grades.

[kyfriedchick1]

Honestly, I have been doing a lot of soul searching. I definitely am not killing myself in school to graduate and find that there are no job opportunities for a High School English teacher. In my area of the country, there is an abundance of English and History teachers. We have a severe shortage of Science & Math teachers. And I can honestly say that I only had one female math teacher from middle school on and no female science teachers.

Here is what I am leaning toward right now... and it could change tomorrow, I don't know. I am going to explore my options in middle school math and science. I *HAVE* to teach. Teaching is the only thing I have ever wanted to do in my life and honestly, as corny as this sounds, I don't think my life would be complete if I didn't make this dream a reality.

I was always in advanced math and science classes and tested at a high school level in math when I was in third grade. Still, math and science are both classes that I have to work in because they don't come as easily as English does to me. Still, I believe that life should be a challenge and nothing worth anything comes easy. I don't want to live my life in a comfort zone if I can challenge myself on a daily basis and prove to my own kids that hard work and perserverance are completely worth it in the end.

Soooo.... I am going to check out the math and science middle school programs at the university I am transferring to in the fall and see exactly what is expected and go from there.

[leafy seadragon]

Good on you! Challenge yourself, remember wherever you start, you can always move around. You don't need to stay in the same area. I have taught all grades in Primary school, High school as a Support Teacher Learning, school to work programs and have now settled into a Primary special ed class (Autism). I've found my niche, for the moment, but all my adventures have really informed my teaching. Good luck

[mopar]

Just make sure that you still get the English endorsement/certificate. Then after you teach math or science for a few years, talk with your principal about moving to English if you so choose.

[Mr. Larrabee]

As a Corbin native, I've got to ask. Which school are you wanting to teach at?

There are going to be job openings, maybe not this year, and maybe not the next, but sometime soon. If you know where you want to be, and if you can check around and see who's going to be retiring from where, it will help you make a decision that will get you employed. Of course, once you get your foot in the door, then you can work out the details a little better.
As far as whether to teach highschool or elementary or middle, I suggest you really consider what sort of things are going to bother you the most, and avoid them. Seems simplistic, but I think it helped me end up in the right place. I really don't mind that teenagers are willful and rowdy and prone to push their boundaries. There's a time for that stuff. They can also focus on tasks when the time is right. I subbed at the elementary school, and despite having a daughter the same age, I realized pretty quick that I couldn't really handle a roomful of them. I disliked having to teach boundaries and acceptable behavior, and having to try to appeal to the whole class.

[kyfriedchick1]

I think that my major problem with elementary school is going to be the parents. *WAIT... before you say anything about parents at the middle & high school level being UNINVOLVED is a problem, let me state my case...*

I have a couple of really close friends that have children in elementary school. And they have good teachers.. I have observed under at least one of these teachers and the other I have heard nothing but good reports -- except from these "friends" of mine. They are constantly criticizing the teachers and are at the schools trying to tell them how to do their job. One of them came to me and asked what I thought about the teacher "expecting the parent" to work with the child at home. I almost went through the roof -- of course it is the parents job to work with their kids on reading and such... the home SHOULD BE the primary learning facility for the child... now, I'm not naive and I know it doesn't happen this way but that's how I feel. Anyway, I have lost someone I thought was a good friend due to this.

I have two children both in elementary school. And I work closely with my children's teachers to make sure that my children are getting the best possible education. Not bragging here or anything, but I am very involved in my children's education. Not all parents are, I realize that but the ones that think they know everything and threaten to pull their children out of school if you don't teach what they want you to teach, really gets me.

That is probably the main reason I'm considering teaching anything other than elementary school.

[mopar]

That issue may lessen with some parents in middle school. However, many parents that are on the teacher in elementary school are still that way in middle school. I have seen my fair share of parents who want to dictate the curriculum or how the students learn. And I know that many of the advanced teachers have issues with parents in high school. My parents were one of those people. They loved my elementary teachers but they changed their tune in high school. They constantly wanted to know how I was being prepared for college and life. So, these parents don't go away. The gift is that you have other teachers who see the parents too. So, the wealth is shared not only on you.

[Boxcar]

Parents can really be a challenge.

It is becoming one of my soapboxes actually. I think that educating a child requires teamwork. I know that especially the low SES parents have a lot of obstacles, but there are little things that can help a teacher out.

[Chef Dave]

I think that my major problem with elementary school is going to be the parents ... One of them came to me and asked what I thought about the teacher "expecting the parent" to work with the child at home. I almost went through the roof -- of course it is the parents job to work with their kids on reading and such... the home SHOULD BE the primary learning facility for the child...

Ah yes ... parents. This is another reason why I don't miss teaching at the elementary level.

I have had parents say the following things in response to being contacted because of concerns I had about the children.

1) "So what do you expect me to do about it? YOU'RE the teacher. DO YOUR JOB!"

2) "You must be mistaken. My child would never do anything like that."

3) "You have my permission to beat my grandson. Just smack him upside of the head. That's what I do."

4) "You think my child needs counseling? Listen bud, you're the one who needs counseling! I don't need my kid screwed up with psycho-babble by some liberal pansy!" This comment was made because the student in question, a 4th grade boy, was repeatedly observing touching girls at inappropriate places i.e. chest, bottom, and crotch. The parent refused permission to allow me to send the child to the school counselor. A month and a half later, he was expelled from school. The student had climbed on top of a cafeteria table, exposed himself, and urinated on a girl.

5) "Why do I have to study multiplication flash cards with my child? You're the teacher." This comment was made by a woman who was a former elementary teacher.

6) "HEY! Don't tell my kid what to do. I'm teaching him to be a man and a real man don't take nuth'n offa no one! If you want me to come to school and talk to you about this up close and personal, I'll beat you to a pulp? DO YOU HEAR ME! The parent in question subsequently threatened to come to school and shoot me. When I told the building administrator, he contacted the police. A police cruiser was parked at the front gate of our school. The building administrator sat outside my classroom with a baseball bat. The parent never showed up. Two years later, while attending a wedding, the father of the bride chastised his child for shooting a shotgun into the air. Outraged that anyone was telling his kid what to do, the kid's father grabbed the shotgun, pumped a round, and belly shot the father of the bride.

[mopar]

Those are awful. Were those comments all made when you taught elementary school?
I am thankfully that I haven't had any of my parents say some of those comments. I think that it really depends on where you work. I taught at the elementary school and have had groups of parents who are awesome. I've also taught at the middle school and had parents who wanted to micromanage my classroom. I think it depends a lot of where you teach and how you communicate with the parents. If you can get them on your side, they will work better with you.

[Chef Dave]

Those are awful. Were those comments all made when you taught elementary school?


Yep! Some of these comments were made in person. Others were made over the phone.

While teaching at an international school overseas, I had a conference with two parents who had had their 3rd grade daughter rather late in life. The mother was in her late forties and the father was in his late fifties.

The father listened to what I had to say and then shrugged. "What's that to me," he asked. "Look at me. I'm getting old. I didn't want this kid. She was an accident. Do you know what I do when I get home? I read the paper. I watch a movie. I'm tired. The last thing I want is to have anything to do with my daughter."

The mother broke into tears.

(sigh)

Nope ... I don't miss being an elementary teacher at all.

[mopar]

Wow! I thought I had some pretty unconcerned parents. I actually had to convince one mom that she had a son and he was sitting in front of me. That was crazy! But I've never had a parent straight out tell me that they didn't want their kid.
But I've also had a lot of parents who could care less about their kids and let them run the streets. What a concept, the kids parenting themselves!!!

[Chef Dave]

What a concept, the kids parenting themselves!!!

Our district police officer told me about a recent experience he had. A neighbor had called the station to report a case of child neglect. The investigating officer found a 5 year old supervising two younger children, a 1 year old and 3 year old. According to the neighbor, the children had been left at home alone for a couple of hours.

It took an hour for social services to arrive.

It took another hour for social services to determine that the children needed to be removed.

By this time the parent had been gone for at least 4 hours. The officer in question had been present for two hours.

Just as social services was taking the children, the parent drove up.

"But officer, I was only gone for a few minutes," she complained.

The officer had to place the parent under arrest.

BTW - did you see the recent CNN story about an 8 year old who called 911 because his mother was driving drunk with him in the car?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0710/24/ng.01.html

[sweetsass]

Geez, Chef Dave. Reading your comments, I'm glad I work in the ghetto where parents don't give a damn and never come to school or answer the phone.

[kyfriedchick1]

Wow... I'm thinking more and more that elementary is not for me. I live in Southeastern Kentucky and *most* of the parents I know will take their children's side over a teacher's anyday. Their babies would never do anything wrong or never ever lie about another adult. I love my kids, but I also know when they are lying to me... and my daughter learned the hard way not to lie about her teacher. She got busted big time in second grade.

Another friend of mine has a daughter that has just started middle school. Bomb threats have run rampant at that school this year. Not a day goes by -- bomb threat or not -- where she is at that school threatening to pull her child out. I finally got fed up with her and told her that it wasn't just the school at fault but that it was also the local police for not being stricter on the offenders and that if she felt strongly enough to go up there every day, then maybe she should pull her child out and HOMESCHOOL her. She got mad and didn't talk to me for a couple of weeks.

But, that's neither here nor there. I just really could not imagine saying some of the things that Chef Dave had said to him to either of my children's teachers.

And we wonder why children act the way they do...

[Boxcar]

I can't imagine doing those things either.

Mostly I know about the whole My-Sweetie-Would-Never-Do-That syndrome. Unfortuantely, you aren't involved with your Sweetie enough to know what s/he is like.

I know parents do face a lot of obstacles, but still...

[kingrichie]

Most parents are not like that. Once in a while you will those who are very skeptical and try to put you on the spot. But the majority are very supportive and know you are trying to do the best for their kids.

[Chef Dave]

Most parents are not like that ... But the majority are very supportive and know you are trying to do the best for their kids.

Have you ever taught at a low income inner-city school? What about a well to do private school?

You are fortunate not to have had the same experiences that I have had, but I question the generalization "most parents are not like that."

In my career, most parents have been exactly like that. All too many of my low income parents have been indifferent. While working at elite private schools, I found that many of my well to do parents regarded me as little more than "hired help."

[mopar]

Chef Dave, you have also dealt with two extremes. Many students come from middle class families as well. I know quite a few parents who are very down to earth. Many of the students that I work with outside of school are private school types-their parents have been nothing but helpful and are often very supportive of the teachers. I have also had a lot of low income students who have parents that are very involved with their children and even volunteer in the classroom because they work nights. So, not all parents are one way or the other. No one fits the mold.

[Chef Dave]

So, not all parents are one way or the other. No one fits the mold.

I'm not saying that they are. I was simply responding to the generalization that "most parents are not that way."

As you said, "not all parents are one way or the other."

[mopar]

I think that every year, you will have one or two parents who are more challenging to handle or will be disrespectful. However, that leaves around 20 or more parents, depending on class size, that are supportive or easier to talk with. You will also have one or two parents that want to help and do anything to help out. So hopefully, each year, there will be a balance. However, some years you have more one or the other. Just remember, its just a year and next year will be different.