the pledge of allegiance [Archive] - Teacher Forums

RonAR

12-20-2006, 01:20 PM

young people should be instructed in all things by the school. As most countries do, they should be taught to love, repect, and honor the country that protects and provides for them.

As the Declaration states, we receive our rights from our Creator (God) not from the state, who then takes them away, nor from the constitution, which could be changed by the vote of the Congress, or by the President, who could issue an order by the stroke of the pen, or by the Court, who could alter it by a single court decision. Rather by God, who does not change by a whim or pressure.

javamomma

12-20-2006, 06:32 PM

This is an activity I do with my 3rd Graders every year.
I take the words from the pledge and we define them. Then say the pledge with the new words in their place (the ones I put in () ).

If you take apart the Pledge it has a lot to say to us:

I pledge (promise) allegiance (loyalty) to the flag of the United (brought together) States of America, and to the Republic (free country) for which it (the flag) stands, one Nation (country) under God, indivisible (cannot be divided), with liberty (freedom) and justice (fairness) for all.

Helper

12-20-2006, 08:34 PM

Well, the report is probably already thrown in last school years dump pile yet; it is always good to start with a basic understanding of what the flag represents...such as, who created it, how many people have died for your honor to go to school and even have a pledge or a flag to pledge. hope this helps others to find a basic understanding

AAA Teacher Forum

12-22-2006, 09:04 AM

I think learning the pledge using sign language is great for students. I think it allows you to teach about what the pledge means, but I also believe they have to "think" about it a little more as well.

Jennifer

Mr Wonderful

02-16-2007, 08:57 AM

SLP

03-09-2007, 11:59 AM

Are you really a teacher?
Do you call your students names like "crazy man"?
Do you understand tolerance, positive reinforcement, praise, & teaching patriotism?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...........

achowalogen

03-21-2007, 07:55 PM

The pledge, repeated daily, helps in several ways:

It reminds the youth of the things they should be thankful for.
It sets a standard opening for every school day that everyone participates in (and even if they DON'T say it, they should stand and show respect).
It sets up a pattern of morality.
It teaches students manners (If I forget, someone remind me to do more on that).
It gets students to a point where, when they go out in the community and attend other events, they understand what is happening and why.

So who would foolishly let this leave the school day?

Brimir

08-30-2007, 08:45 PM

I agree. Before I had a classroom of my own, I used to love to walk down the hallway and hear all of the students say the pledge at the same time. It really brings us together as a community.

joanna123

08-31-2007, 09:43 AM

If we model indifference, our students follow suit. If we model that we don't care if they write creatively they won't. If we model a fear of math they pick it up. If we model a dislike or indifference to reading why should they care? If you make the pledge part of your core democratic values lessons---and demonstrate respect for our nation, your students will pick up on it. My kids love to sing the anthem daily, and say the pledge. If I somehow forget I sure hear about it. We have even been asked to sing the anthem at local sporting events on 9/11 for college teams. My students have a better, hands on, understanding of PATRIOTISM. It means more than wearing red, white, and blue on Independence Day.

Chef Dave

11-12-2007, 10:26 PM

are you crazy? the pledge doesnt mean anything, I allow my students the option of saying the pledge, but they all choose not to so we just skip it, doesnt mean we dont love America...you crazy man

These words don't mean anything?

I beg to differ.

"I pledge allegiance of my flag, and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

This is the original pledge as it was first written by Francis Bellamy in 1892. He wrote the pledge to salute America.

In an earlier version he wrote "equality for all" instead of "justice for all" but knew that the State Superintendents of Education opposed equality for women and minorities. Tactful person that he was, he wrote "justice for all."

In the years that have followed, only three changes have ever been made.

On June 14th, 1923, congress voted to change the words "My flag" to "the United States Flag".

In 1924, "of America" was added.

Thirty years later during the Eisenhower administration, the words "under God" were added.

"I pledge allegiance," means I promise to be true.

"To the flag" which is the symbol of our country.

"Of the United States of America" includes each state which forms this nation.

"And to the Republic" meaning a country with a representative government where the people have a say in how we are governed.

"For which it stands," meaning the flag which represents our nation.

"One Nation" a single unified country.

"Under God" with belief in the almighty.

"Indivisible" meaning we stand together.

"With liberty and justice" referring to freedom and fairness.

"For all" means for each person in the country.

And you say that these words mean nothing?

I wonder how many men and women of our armed forces have died to give you the freedom to sneer at this pledge?

Shame on you for suggesting that these words have no meaning!

Chef Dave

11-12-2007, 10:32 PM

teach1027

12-14-2007, 12:07 PM

I think it should sty in schools, because it helps teach citizenship. Why do we pledge allegiance what is the history of our country, why was it founded? There are so many Social Studies and History ties.

teach1027

12-14-2007, 12:11 PM

You go Chef DAve. I am appaled at Mr. Wonderful's comments. But this is th United States and we are free to our own opinions. Very Ironic isn't it.

Bananas

12-28-2007, 06:07 AM

It is a law in our state to say the Pledge of Allegiance, so you wouldn't be able to let the students overlook saying it.

kingrichie

01-07-2008, 03:54 PM

You know, I've never done it. There's no time. Need to plan, correct, conference, duty, state testing, observations, score multiple measures, ELD profiles, checklists, report cards, staff meeting, etc..., etc..., etc...

busbus

01-07-2008, 04:31 PM

A short history of the Pledge of Allegiance can be found here:

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

I personally feel that reciting the Pledge has merit for citizens of the United States. It is a way for us to remind ourselves that we are fortunate to be citizens in a country where we have personal freedoms and religious freedoms.

Bananas

01-07-2008, 08:52 PM

I agree busbus. It is done during our homeroom, so it doesn't even take away from our instructional time.

AWOL

06-11-2008, 03:01 AM

Unfortunately the country the pledge was made for gives you the right to not stand during the pledge. I got in trouble loads of times for not singing the Australian Anthem. They asked me if I loved my country. I said yes. They said 'then sing'! My answer was 'I love my country, that's why I don't sing'... It's the same thing for the pledge. And the motive behind that, both of them, is that the government seems quite content with what we have. I don't mean technology. I mean choice. Some people don't have any, such as minors.

silvana

06-11-2008, 04:04 AM

Awol you always talk in relative terms....minors do have choices...you can choose to do the wrong thing and suffer the consequences, its called taking responsibility....to say you have no choice is misleading. I think you using the singing of the national anthem is not really a good example, you have a choice to take drugs, fight, lie, steal not get educated etc etc whatever age you are To me these are bigger choices and more life altering than not singing the national anthem or pledging allegiance, both of which I consider of tokenistic value in a socio political society..

I wish I could have stopped some minors I know from taking drugs, and ruining their lives, I could not because they exercised their free choice. =(

Boxcar

06-11-2008, 10:59 AM

I love how you brought up choosing to do the wrong thing and suffer the consequences! That is something I totally agree about. People always have choices. They may not like the options, but they do have them.

smithmt

06-25-2008, 07:17 AM

are you crazy? the pledge doesnt mean anything, I allow my students the option of saying the pledge, but they all choose not to so we just skip it, doesnt mean we dont love America...you crazy man

You know, despite the fact that Mr. Wonderful has interesting word choices for expressing himself (most of which make him seem like he either barely speaks English using a bad translating program, or doesn't know much in the way of Elementary History) I agree that the students have an option to pledge their allegiance or not.

I think it's important to realize that the pledge DOES have meaning (thank you Javamoma and Chef Dave) and part of our right of free speech is the right not to say it. I usually ask the students their reason for not saying it. and if they just cite their first amendment rights, I ask if there is any reason, political, religious, ideological, or other wise that they disagree with in the reciting of the pledge. When they say no, I explain what the first amendment says about their right to freedom of speech and expression. It usually works.

Now, I happen to recite the credo, but I understand that some religions don't allow for the participants to pledge to anything other than God. I also have had students that feel it their right to not say it (one even attempted citing the fact the "...under God..." was an anti-communist ferreting tool) I only ask that those students who decide not to say the pledge still stand for respect, but remain quiet; not to distract or be 'cute' because they can.

SS Rocks!

06-25-2008, 08:28 AM

When I was in high school, I didn't say the pledge. I would stand but I didn't see the necessity in reciting the pledge. It had nothing to do with a lack of love for this country, I just didn't want to say it. I saw no reason to recite the pledge.

With my middle schoolers, I do make them stand during the pledge but I do not force them to recite it. As a teacher, I recite the pledge each morning to set a positive example but I'm not going to get bent out of shape over them not saying it. I doubt anyone has fallen in love with the US because of reciting the pledge at school or turned atainst the nation because they didn't say it.

I really like what the one teacher did with their elementary school students with defining the words in the pledge. That's a great way to put meaning behind the pledge. For myself (and I'm sure many students go through school like this) it was just a part of the daily routine. I said it because I had to.

hweber

07-18-2008, 08:37 AM

I too had my kids define the words of the pledge during the Revolutionary War unit in social studies. Then we talked about why it was written and why it is important. Sometimes I think we lose sight of what our forefathers went through and why we do some of the rituals we do. We have to make things relevant for our students so they understand too.

thunderstruck

07-18-2008, 03:34 PM

People have different views on a country. It would be useless to require them to even stand up for values or beliefs they didn't agree with. It's not "respectful" if the students get in trouble for not reciting the pledge. And since people are diverse anyway, why must certain schools insist on bringing it up every day?

Oneiromancy

07-18-2008, 04:06 PM

It's presumptuous to think that forcing kids to say the pledge will make them love their country and if they don't, then they won't. If someone doesn't want to say the pledge, they shouldn't, and if they're forced day after day to say it, it becomes a meaningless sound.

And I'm sorry but I vehemently disagree with some of the things that were said in here. The biggest one being this whole idea of respect and patriotism. The ideas surrounding the two are complex and "patriotism" is especially a vague term.

Also, you're only wasting your time by trying to guilt trip someone into being respectful or being a "patriot". Criticism of one's country and culture should not be looked down on, whether we're in the US or anywhere else.

teach4560

07-23-2008, 08:47 PM

teacher5

07-29-2008, 04:18 PM

In elementary school, it is necessary. It is a moment in the day that causes children and teachers alike to stop and reflect about respect and honor of their country and the people who defend it, lost their lives defending it, and continue to defend it. At the elementary level it is a wonderful teaching tool related to historical events. When this is done, I hear students make remarks about making meaningful connections to the pledge. Although we are a nation of many religions, cultures, and people, the pledge is one of many unifying events of each day. This kind of patriotic act brings us together. Each year we have a group of Veterans come in and talk to the kids about their time in WW II, Korea, Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, Iraq or Afghanistan. In return, the children volunteer to write thank yous and sing our National Anthem, God Bless the USA, and Coming to America. There is a wonderful sense of appreciation and patriotism that fills the air on that day. The kids never forget meeting these men and women, and get a truer sense of patriotism. I am sure anyone with a little bit of time and energy can set up a day like this at their school, too. Just contact your local VFW.

Oneiromancy

07-31-2008, 08:07 AM

Blind patriotism and "respect" (whatever that means) are two of the most dangerous forces acting in this world.

"There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not wave in a vacuum." - Arthur Clarke

Instead of taking the time to reflect on what a big and grand and all-powerful country this is and all our soldiers "defending" it (what the heck are we defending against? who is attacking us?), we should be reflecting on bigger things that lie outside this world. The bigger things I'm talking about are virtues and values which are owned by nobody including any country or organization.

I don't know why I try to talk people out of these attitudes which will, inevitably, kill us, whether physically or philosophically. It just stuns me why anyone would value "patriotism" in the sense that it is normally given.

I swear my allegiance to no country. I swear my allegiance to trying to be a darn good human being one day at a time. If you can't "respect" (whatever that means) that, then I really just don't know what to say.

I also like how Americans think we're the only country in the world with any amount of freedom. I like how Americans think this is the only country that you can live in that has "opportunity" (ambiguous term) and "happiness" (ambiguous term). It's hard to believe, but there are around 200 countries on planet Earth and not all of them are evil commie terrorists. And if you're wondering, there are good-natured human beings elsewhere in the world.

Meh, I'll stop now. I realize my efforts are futile. Ah well, I can always hope that one day people will realize America isn't all it's cut out to be. I get pretty disgusted sometimes living in this crazy place, but I still find a lot of things to live for...

WVmtnlady

08-01-2008, 01:19 PM

I will always stand with pride and honor for my country and recite the pledge. :)

Boxcar

08-01-2008, 02:02 PM

On a side note - Do I cover my heart for the Pledge or has that changed? Also, do I cover my heart for the National Anthem?

Boxcar

08-01-2008, 02:08 PM

Okay in response to one of the above posts...

Who is attacking us? Um... I vividly remember 9/11. Do you?

OUr soliders are defending our right to explore and hold those virtues and values you speak of.

We don't help anyone? Do you know how much we donate to releif funds? How much we give to countries without interest or repayment in order that they get thier ecconomys going?

Sure, some things like the poor people are overlooked. Yes, the system is broken in many ways. That is not a reason to give up or belittle the foundation of a group of individuals who call themselves a country.

Oneiromancy

08-01-2008, 02:43 PM

9/11 was nothing. There's been a culture clash for 100s of years. This mess that we have today was not the result of 9/11. This is an unfortunate view that many Americans hold and which inevitably leads to being overly supportive of aggressive military actions and oversimplification of this huge problem.

We did not go to war in 2001. We've been at war for a long...long time.

I am not trying to belittle America. I am trying to get people to understand this isn't some glorious perfect nation and to remind them that we are not the only country in the world with freedoms. There are plenty of countries in the world where I can legally hold a protest or speak my opinions or whatever example you want to use.

Oneiromancy

08-01-2008, 04:03 PM

One more thing...did you know with the patriot act, when you make a confession to a priest, they are, under law, required to report anything that may suspect terroristic activities.

I could go on with examples all day long. We don't have quite as much freedom as you think nowadays. Our founding fathers would be pretty disappointed in what we've become. We don't even adhere to neutrality anymore. We just want to police the world.

thunderstruck

08-04-2008, 03:45 AM

One other thing about America and American values, there's a well known expression: liberty and justice for all. Well, until you turn 18, you can't vote, amongst other things. You can't vote, because you're deemed too ignorant about the political issues (and I certainly don't think adults are much more informed than minors are), and that's fairly insulting, but more importantly, it's *not* liberty and justice for all. It's liberty and justice for some. So you can clearly see why some people wouldn't want to stand up, recite the pledge and "be part of the community".

Oneiromancy

08-04-2008, 06:56 AM

Ouch thunderstruck, you're about to get yelled at by all the uptight adults on this website. :)

I wasn't going to bring that up because it's futile. Everyone knows that until the age of your existence hits the 18 Earth years mark, you possess 0 dignity, 0 judgment skill, and 0 critical thinking skills...oh and lack of "experience" of course because being older means you're automatically wiser.

I know the kids in other countries have more rights than kids in America, but those countries don't exist to Americans remember? Only about 10 countries or so are on the radar of the American brain out of the ~200 that exist.

joshmon80

08-26-2008, 09:20 AM

This is obviously an incredibly hot topic. I know of teachers in high school that bring this issue up in government classes. They turn it into a big debate splitting the class in half. I say this quote to my students and I think it is important to say it in this thread. "Your mind is like a parachute, it works best when open."-anonymous

Karenrbw

08-26-2008, 02:56 PM

I have a real problem with the way most kids are taught the pledge. it should be recited exactly how it is written. There is no comma and no pause after "one nation" and almost every kid pauses there. I know they did that to teach them the pledge when they were very young, but teach it to them right folks!

samffff

03-13-2011, 12:27 PM

are you crazy? the pledge doesnt mean anything, I allow my students the option of saying the pledge, but they all choose not to so we just skip it, doesnt mean we dont love America...you crazy man

Thank you for this post. Reading the others on this site I was beginning to lose my faith in humanity. It is a disgrace that we indoctrinate our students in this way every morning, not to mention take away from class time. Furthermore, the Supreme Court has ruled that forcing students to recite the pledge is "compulsory unification of opinion" and in violation of the First Amendment. Many of the responders to this thread would do well to look up West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette. If we were truly serious about instilling our youth with a love for country then there are better ways to do it. Give them healthcare, stop firing their teachers, stop running up a deficit that they will have to pay down and stop getting into wars that we shouldn't be in. If these things are done I promise there will be more [I]genuine[I] patriotism in this country and not the kind that is forced on students.

samffff

03-13-2011, 12:43 PM

Why do I pledge allegience to the flag and have my students do it. First,let me say that it stands for respect and honor to those that came before us and fought for freedom.Children and adults have lost respect for many things. However, when I see the flag I feel a sense of pride and honor for my country the good old USA. Second,it teaches children a sense of patriotism and about good citizenship.This is why I think the pledge should stay in the schools and be taught daily to the students.

The "good old USA", huh? Are you referring to the slaughtering of Native Americans or slavery? How about Jim Crow laws or McCarthyism? Or how about the murder of 17% of the population of Vietnam that took place in a war that was begun to extend French colonialism? Maybe you're talking about the Iran-Contra affair, Reaganomics, or the war on drugs that keeps millions of African Americans incarcerated and unable to find work. No, sir, I do not hate America as you might think. I simply do not buy into the whole myth of the "good old USA", nor do I wish for the continuation of mindless rituals such as the pledge of allegiance. Rather than teach our students how perfect the U.S. is, let us teach them about our mistakes so they may not be repeated. Then, perhaps, we will have a "good new USA".

yeongo saem

03-13-2011, 07:08 PM

http://www.puppetgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/american-school-children-bellamy-salute.jpg

I find the history behind the pledge more interesting than anything else. I'm not as well studied in post-bellum American history but from what I gather it was largely an attempt to indoctrinate the South and immigrant groups into accepting the idea of American nationhood. And by golly it worked swell, didn't it?

old_school

06-10-2011, 09:08 PM

As a vet my self, this issue really makes me want to smack someone up side their head for removing the pleadge in the first place. Sorry to rant but Im going to be blunt for those opposed to the pledge because it says "God". The pledge is just that, a pledge to our country and a promise to do our best to uphold our country the best we can in life. It also respects our goverment and vets.

So if your against the pledge, do you enjoy living and breathing in a free country? Did you enjoy the ability to freely speak about what ever you wished today? Did you enjoy the ability to visit the store and eat your food in peace? I thought so, remember who keeps all those things possiable for you. BTW histroicaly our country was founded on Christain belief. I did not see you having a issue spending money that says "In God We Trust", so because you cant spend the pledge its not important? Maybe you you don;t see the value in freedom. If not that's ok, I'll be sure to ship you overseas. Maybe their god will keep you alive and their military will protect you.

Sorry had to rant about this, this topic really steams me. People getting upset over the word "God" and taking away the pledge from the children. Your belief, your problem. Leave the children alone and let them support the country freely.

yeongo saem

06-10-2011, 10:06 PM

Well, if ranting's allowed, then...

As a vet my self [myself], this issue really makes me want to smack someone up side their head for removing the pleadge [pledge]in the first place. Sorry to rant but Im [I'm] going to be blunt for those opposed to the pledge because it says "God". The pledge is just that, a pledge to our country and a promise to do our best to uphold our country the best we can in life. It also respects our goverment [government] and vets.

So if your [you're] against the pledge, do you enjoy living and breathing in a free country? Did you enjoy the ability to freely speak about what ever you wished today? Did you enjoy the ability to visit the store and eat your food in peace? I thought so, remember who keeps all those things possiable [possible] for you. [comma splice] BTW histroicaly [historically] our country was founded on Christain [Christian] belief. [I think a certain Messrs Jefferson, Washington, and Franklin might not know what you're writing about] I did not see you having a [an] issue spending money that says "In God We Trust", so because you cant spend the pledge its [it's] not important? Maybe you you don;t see the value in freedom. If not that's ok, I'll be sure to ship you overseas [comma splice]. Maybe their god will keep you alive and their military will protect you.

Sorry had to rant about this, this topic really steams me. [comma splice] People getting upset over the word "God" and taking away the pledge from the children. [no subject] Your belief, your problem. Leave the children alone and let them support the country freely.

...and I wasn't even counting split infinitives. Mate, if your writing and communicative ability are in any way indicative of America's teachers, your country has far greater things to worry about than the anachronistic perpetuation of anti-Confederate propaganda. Please tell me you were seriously drunk or stoned when you wrote that.

Melinda

07-21-2011, 08:16 AM

Please do not judge American teachers by one post! Most of us are working hard to improve our student's lives just like all teachers everywhere!
The Pledge of Allegiance at our school is said each morning with the mandantory "moment of silence." We have a fairly large community of military families at our school and I do not see the disrespect for the pledge some teachers have seen. Quite a few of our student's parents are fighting overseas and that puts a whole different spin on the allegiance issue.

WGU Grad

07-21-2011, 10:03 AM

Mate, if your writing and communicative ability are in any way indicative of America's teachers, your country has far greater things to worry about than the anachronistic perpetuation of anti-Confederate propaganda.

For the second time in just over a week, your comments are offensive.

yeongo saem

07-21-2011, 06:45 PM

For the second time in just over a week, your comments are offensive.

06 = June. If I'm not mistaken it is now July, is it not? I sure hope so because I have a flight to catch 24 July and plan to head to the airport the day after tomorrow.

yeongo saem

07-21-2011, 06:49 PM